Spicer 4-speed shifting

[luvrbus]

I had a friend in the early 80's that ordered a Peterbilt with a 6 X 4 both overdrive. I got the model numbers of both transmissions and made a table for him with all possible ratios. Even though theoretically there were 24 gears, believe it or not, 10 were either repeats, or so close you couldn't really use them-so only 14 speeds progressive. I'll take an Eaton 18spd Roadranger any day with a true 18 speeds progressive. Good Luck, TomC

Dad's trucks were 5x4-20 speed the Brown Lipe in low was used off road setting up rigs the great part in his business was the 5 speed winch that the Brown Lipe would let you have  most of the time only 15 gears was used on the highways.Those AutoCar's would haul anything you put behind them on a lowboy with the 5x4 and the 380 hp Cummins.I like the 2 sticks myself , I never wanted to be a truck driver but did enjoy driving my Pete haul truck on occasions
   

[buswarrior]

Rj's article is published online at : http://busnut.com/forum/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=41

Most busnuts don't need to worry about a clutch brake, they don't have one.

For those who do, the clutch brake is NOT FOR USING WHILE MOVING!

Billy Big Rigger is a hired driver, and doesn't have to pay for repairs. The clutch brake is to be used stationary, to get into the start-up gear.

Richard, if you drive religiously by the speedometer, there is no need for a tachometer. Ask yourself why the coach doesn't have a tachometer now, or since it was built...

Stop worrying about over -revving on downshifts... You can't... Go out and floor the throttle in neitral, it just goes up to governed RPM and that's it.

On a downshift, it takes a bit of time to get this happening, as speed is dropping off, so you start just as speed drops to a couple mph above governed speed in the next lower gear, lift throttle, clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out, floor and hold throttle to floor, clutch in, shift into lower gear, clutch out, continue climbing seamlessly. You must start just above governed speed, and when you are done, you will be passing through governed speed, and it all happens like a hot knife through butter.

You choose gears according to an EXACT roadspeed, that depends completely on GOVERNED speed in each gear.

Your gear change points are not variable, they are EXACTLY at a certain road speed.

An automobile has 5000 or more rpm to play with gears. The coach has 2100 rpm... no room to play.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

 Don't you love Allisons the best thing invented since sliced bread ,no linkage,no clutch, no gear chasing,grinding and no left knee hurting

[sledhead]

   up until they won,t go into gear ! ( auto trans )  ) but never had that problem yet

dave

[luvrbus]

  up until they won,t go into gear ! ( auto trans )  ) but never had that problem yet

dave

Yep but you can have a 740 installed rebuilt with a warranty cheaper than a clutch job at a shop,a friggn clutch for a MCI 5 cost 2000 bucks plus now no labor or other parts involved 

[RJ]

I don't know about how things play out in an MCI, but in the 4108 I'm pretty sure that getting the transmission into first gear is a universal problem. Nearly impossible to accomplish this with the engine running - I usually make sure I'm in first when I get to an intersection. If I need to let it idle to warm up usually I have to shut down, shift into first, and then restart using the neutral switch over ride. If getting into first was my only problem I'd be happy.

Richard -

As mentioned in my article, at a dead stop with the transmission in neutral, try slipping the transmission into 4th to stop the gears from rotating, then sliding it over into 1st.  It will still bump a little, but not nearly as bad.  (The issue you're talking about is universal to GMC Parlor Car wet clutches.)

Don't forget that a drop of mama's white nail polish on the speedometer face at the maximum road speed in each of the lower gears does wonders to help with your downshifts when pulling a grade.

Glad to hear that things are getting better, like anything else, it gets easier with practice.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Gary LaBombard]

RJ, would you consider making a detailed video for youtube to show us newbies how in heck to shift our 4 speed spicer buses.  I am in the same boat as those above and nearly ready to try using my bus by spring after all these years.  But, I can read what to do but I learn much easier by watching video's over, and over till I get it right and that is how I teach others on a job I once had.  Video's go a long ways, but you showing us how to shift on a level ground, double clutching, shifting up and down, going up and down steep grades etc.  I know this is time consuming but man could you be helping a lot of us out.  I would watch that thing over and over till I see and feel everything you tell us. Just consider this if you would, I know I would appreciate it.  I try to find stuff on this on youtube but to no avail.
If you do such a thing please post the URL for it on this post after you post it so we can all find that easily as we are all in the same darn boat.
 Thanks ahead of time.

[chessie4905]

I've heard that recommendation for years on bus forums and it never made a difference for me. Make sure your idle is at spec. and throttle has proper return spring/s. That will make a difference. Some have their engines set higher so idle oil pressure looks better and exaberate the problem, plus if your clutch drags a little. Check that by holding clutch in and waiting for gears to stop turning. If it takes more than two days, clutch is dragging. Ok, I'm exaggerating.....more than an hour or so. Oh, and don't put it in neutral at traffic lights. They'll never slow down then, especially with a dozen vehicles behind you. 04's are bad for this as all the gears and bearings have about a bazillion miles on them and are almost a perpetual motion machine now. Synthetic oil helps as it doesn't get thinner when hot.

[luvrbus]

RJ, would you consider making a detailed video for youtube to show us newbies how in heck to shift our 4 speed spicer buses.  I am in the same boat as those above and nearly ready to try using my bus by spring after all these years.  But, I can read what to do but I learn much easier by watching video's over, and over till I get it right and that is how I teach others on a job I once had.  Video's go a long ways, but you showing us how to shift on a level ground, double clutching, shifting up and down, going up and down steep grades etc.  I know this is time consuming but man could you be helping a lot of us out.  I would watch that thing over and over till I see and feel everything you tell us. Just consider this if you would, I know I would appreciate it.  I try to find stuff on this on youtube but to no avail.
If you do such a thing please post the URL for it on this post after you post it so we can all find that easily as we are all in the same darn boat.
 Thanks ahead of time.

Gary, you Eagle has a different clutch setup from a MCI or GM bus your 4 speed will shift easy,Sonja can drive a 4 speed Eagle all over the country and she has but a GM or MCI gives her fits she make me drive those 

[RJ]

RJ, would you consider making a detailed video for youtube to show us newbies how in heck to shift our 4 speed spicer buses.

Gary -

I would be more than happy to do such a video - IF I had a stick-shift coach to do it with!

Perhaps while at the Quartzsite rally in January I might be able to come up with a volunteer or two, and will try to get the three majors (Eagle, GMC, MCI) in the film, too.

In the meantime, Gary, watch again the video of Fred shifting the Scenicruiser I linked to earlier in this thread replying to Richard.  Pay particular attention to the timing as he shifts the coach.

Stay tuned?

FWIW & HTH. . .

[dtcerrato]

You should see the video(s) of RJ shifting Adrian's Scenic up and down the derby parking lot at the last Arcadia rally. It was a sight to behold....

[tom120]

Check the throttle return response. A lazy return will work against you. Our 47 with the Spicer was a different  bus with a properly functioning throttle.  Opened the Spicer box after the Allison 1000 conversion. Itvwas like new inside.

[luvrbus]

This is interesting I never knew people had so many problems shifting a old 4 speed it is a sign of the times automatics have spoiled us over the years   

[Gary LaBombard]

I can't wait to find out after all these years Cliff.  I definitely will make a (Before and After) video of my Eagle spicer shifting methods.  It will be funny I am sure at first but if it encourages others and I accomplish the shifting mode like you old timers I will be glad to have helped those newbies such as myself at this moment.  Don't forget to post on this thread or a new one RJ your procedure for the shifting.  To show you what a retard I was when I brought my bus home, I was told to go in reverse to press in the (Reverse) button and then shift into 2nd gear I believe.  Anyhow, I was turning in a direct 90 deg. turn in my drive way, got up close to my 8' high wooden fence and needed to go in reverse to rearrange my attack to get in the drive way.

Well, I was inches away from the fence, decided to go in reverse as I said, pushed in the Reverse button and released it then shifted into 2nd. gear.  Guess what, I was in 2nd gear and ended up getting closer to my fence.  I was not told to hold the button in the entire time while shifting, I was nervous, neighbors watching my dilemma and enjoying the show.  I stopped the bus, went in my shed and got my chainsaw and cut out a section of 8 ft. out of my fence. no more problem, I drove in the rest of the way and parked it for 14 years now. Neighbors do not fool with me at all anymore.

Yes that happened, but I tell of all my stupid mistakes to show I can laugh at myself and to show it can happen to a newbie very easily and hopefully my experiences will make them remember little things like that to show it happens to all until they themselves become veterans of driving a bus or wanting to.  I will look forward to all and any videos you can make RJ or anyone on our special conversion hobby.    

[luvrbus]

Gary, if you don't have or a need a drivers manual for your 05 I found one on SCRIBD uploaded by Brian 9966 and it is free print you one (32 pages)