MCI radiators

[lvmci]

I All, has anyone increased the size of MCI split system  radiators, by adding more rows to the radiators? Outside or inside? lvmci...

[windtrader]

Mine has the stock sized radiators but has electric fans placed on the inside of the radiator and pulls extra outside air in through the radiators. So far they seem fine. If more cooling is needed there is plenty of room for a mister array to increase radiator efficiency.

[luvrbus]

Tom, do you have room ? I recall one side was new and the other side a little iffy one extra row sure would help since a radiator cools in steps .
Maybe we could change the pulley for more air movement or we could drop the hp back to MCI specs.
We need to pull the fans anyways and repair the rust where the miter box sets before it all breaks loose, you guys with MCI's are at a disadvantage with the water pump trying to push water uphill.
I have often wondered how much that affects the volume of water moved by the water pump with that setup       

[Lifes2short4nofun]

Mine has the stock sized radiators but has electric fans placed on the inside of the radiator and pulls extra outside air in through the radiators. So far they seem fine. If more cooling is needed there is plenty of room for a mister array to increase radiator efficiency.

Do you mind to post pictures?

I am needing to cool my bus down some and been thinking about something like this.  I am not retired so I run along and sometimes my temp climbs to high for my liking. 

[lvmci]

Hi Clifford, my thoughts too, I had looked for awhile for the 1 radiator system, hoping there will be room, that's why I'm asking. Like you said, when they were new, they didn't overheat. I will give you a call, in Chicago  right now. Having radiators recored, Vans pulling them at Gilbert's shop. I can't post pictures here, lvmci...

[J_E]

A couple of thoughts:

Have you verified that your radiators are clean? both inside and outside?  A build up of dirt, bugs, road debris and other junk between the fins and around the cores will affect the airflow and reduce the efficiency of a radiator.  A simple washing off with a garden hose will not be sufficient to remove something that may have been 'cooked/baked' on over time. 

Look beyond just the radiators.  The coolant system is more than just one or two components.  A build up of scale or other deposits inside the coolant system could keep your radiators from working or even having a chance of working. 

The height of the coolant system above the engine should have a negligible effect on the operation and operational load on the coolant pump. 

If you are going to re-core or replace radiators, I would recommend trying one of the coolant system flush and descaling products and ensure that the coolant system is building the correct pressure.  The potential out of pocket costs isn't that much, the potential savings if you end up not having to pay for a new or re-cored radiator are pretty high.  Plus, if you end up having the radiator work done anyways, you have the added benefit that you've cleaned out some or all of the scale buildup in the block without washing it all into your new or newly re-cored radiator.

[lvmci]

Hi JE, thanks for your thoughts,  yes professionally rinsed with freightliner formula and using the new red antifreeze, plus a misting system. I want to be able to increase horsepower with the new 9F90 injectors from the 350s to the mid 400s. Hopefully I  can install my jake brakes, and like Clifford mentioned, I need to shore up my miter & fan platform, lvmci...

[windtrader]

Do you mind to post pictures?

Here are some images of the radiator bay with the fans. There is a lot of room for fans and misters in the MC8
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ko8oj55idpo6gjo/AAC8BbkC5Ene7rGUTYVSL0HTa?dl=0

[Lifes2short4nofun]

Here are some images of the radiator bay with the fans. There is a lot of room for fans and misters in the MC8
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ko8oj55idpo6gjo/AAC8BbkC5Ene7rGUTYVSL0HTa?dl=0

Thanks a lot, 

[belfert]

These buses didn't overheat when new, but remember the speed limit was 55 MPH when many of these buses were built.  Some of us drive back roads at slow speeds, but plenty are also driving 65 MPH to 75 MPH on the interstates.

[Scott & Heather]

Don, take this with a microscopic grain of salt, but from my perspective, those electric fans may do more harm than good. The amount of CFM your squirrel fans are sucking in is enormous....they are moving way more air than your electric fans could ever dream of moving and the electric fan blades, shrouding, motor, etc is actually likely impeding air movement through the radiator somewhat. I know that these buses actually run slightly cooler with the shutters removed even when they are in the open position because of the reduction in total air movement. If that were my coach I'd remove those fans. When you're running at full RPM, I honestly think they are just in the way. Again, take it with a grain of salt cause I'm no expertZ


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[RJ]

Tom -

Did your C3 come with the 8V92T from the factory new?  If so, MCI installed larger radiators while on the production line.  Biggest difference is a thicker core compared to the 6V92T installs, IIRC.

I don't know if you've got room for even thicker cores, but an alternative might be the newer style "dimpled tube" cores, which have more surface area to interact with the coolant, compared to straight cores.

MCI also installed larger squirrel cages and a smaller drive pulley on the 8V92T-optioned cars, so that's an improvement over the 8V71 and 6V92T units.

One thing that Doug Pierre did when he installed a 6V92T in his MC-5C was to open up the "exit" portion of the squirrel fan cage from 7" x 14" to 14" square, which he says dropped his temp climbing Baker Grade from 190 back down to 180, so there's an option for you.

Don -

I totally agree with Scott's comment about your electric radiator fans impeding the air flow thru your radiators and thus actually increasing the potential for overheating.  If it were my coach, they'd be long gone, probably repurposed for something else (like remote-mounting the genset radiator, for example.)  If you're concerned about heat, look into making the simple modification Doug made to his 5C mentioned above, and possibly picking up a smaller drive pulley for the squirrel fans.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[luvrbus]

Tom's model C is factory installed 8v92 low 380 hp it has the larger radiators now with well sealed larger blowers too.Only the Mormon farmers can make water go up hill and be effective basically a MCI has a radiator for each side of the engine a poor setup that has worked for years though with the stock engine,even with the high, rear mounted the C has 2 radiators when using the 8v92   

[buswarrior]

Go with history...

Busnuts typically have crappy radiators.

Busnuts find cheap, ineffective work-arounds, like misters. Short term at best, and the unspoken BS in reduced operational use during the overheat...

Electric fans have not been found useful on highway going equipment, either busnut or commercial. 2 Dogs... where are you?

Open up the airflow, damper doors out for all, however, a northern busnut needs to pause regarding shutter removal, depending on your operating strategy, they might be useful (they don't obstruct as much as some suggest...)

If the rads are rotten, suck it up and replace them, anything else is a waste of effort, and puts the engine at risk.

Real engineering advances like dimpled tubes, are worthy upgrades. Beware "marketing upgrades"...

Fred Hobe is correct: do not overlook the detail work: fan cones, sealing of the compartment all around the door, around the rads. Also, his recommendations for pulley changes hit the mark.

Radiator scoops are another busnut waste of time. Big ones like Fred Hobe has perform, his research found that the little Mouse Ear ones actually curl the air OUT of the rad cavity.

There's nothing new here, it's all in the archives, either BCM or BNO.

There is no free lunch when cooling a strong engine, the whole kit must be up to snuff. None of us is smarter than those pioneers who came before...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[luvrbus]

There is no free lunch even with the 60 series 12.7 in my DL3 I bumped the HP from 400 hp the MCI setting to 500 hp and the system is running hotter now so a larger radiator is in my future