Would you go back to an older bus? Why?

[oldmansax]

I've been thinking (Don't start!  LOL) and Clifford's post ( http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=31860.0) just broke the dam.

I had a '72 MCI (Mike & Lori's coach now). After 3 years full time I got to where I couldn't drive it because of a bum knee, and it was old, manual tranny, still had fiberglass insulation...... whatever. When you want something else, you can find an excuse. She was a pretty thing though!

Bought an '82 Wanderlodge. WooWee! Newer, 6V92, Auto, good insulation (mostly) all metal, mostly mechanical, no DDEC. I'm on the big road now! Three years into that and IT'S TOO COTTON PICKING COMPLICATED~!!!! It's got relays to operate the relays and you GOT to keep it plugged in or run the genny. Too much stuff just running in the background. So I sold it..... Gonna DOWNSIZE! Sticks and staples here we come!

So we bought a '91 Holiday Rambler Limited 40. All mechanical... mostly. 3208 Cat, Allison auto. No tag, Smaller cheaper tires.  Shorter wheelbase, I can get into my sister's drive without running over her flowers....... So, what's not to like?? Wal, first, IT AIN'T BIG ENOUGH INSIDE TO CUSS A CAT!! The aisle is NARROW. Mind you, I KNEW that when I bought it but I wasn't planning on putting on any weight and the wife is small anyhow  but we can't PASS each other in the hallway! If I am headed to the bathroom and she is leaving, we got problems! Also, it's NOT 40'. It's 39 foot and 7 inches. So you're saying "For crying out loud , Tom, getta grip! It's 5 inches!"  Right.... 5 inches is no big thing...... BUT about 2 foot is taken up by the fiberglass catfish nose on the front that has the the HVAC and a bunch of electrical stuff in it...... that you can't get to because the stinking hood is 8" X 24" !!!

Did I mention it's all mechanical? Well it is; BUT, all the relays that work everything plug into a COMPUTER BOARD made by INTELLITEC that's NO LONGER AVAILABLE!  Now, they will REPAIR the one I have. Price ain't too bad either. You send them the board after you have disconnected and marked the 14 million little wires that connect to it that you can't reach because THE HOOD'S TOO SMALL and then you have to WAIT 4 MONTHS for them to send it back.

So, I'm a little frusterated........ ( That's NOT spelled wrong, that's WHAT I AM!)

So here's my question, particularly to folks like Clifford (the fount of all wisdom and knowledge   LOL) and those of you who have forsaken the old ways and embraced the new.....

Wouldcha' go back? Well, wouldcha'?   Why?    Why not?

There are some very nice Eagles around for reasonable prices now. Not sure I'd buy one of them because I don't know about the suspension. but how 'bout them MCIs? Nice...... Late '80s early '90s maybe....


You know this is PURRDAYY!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282506439221?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It's a '68 an way too much money but who knows what it can be had for?

So what say ye? Honest answers now, no blowing smoke!


TOM

[lostagain]

This subject could be debated ad vitam aeternam, and it will be, but let me start.

That 7 is gorgeous. Too bad they put on those ugly caps, they look so much better stock...

Yea for the right price, that would be a great coach.

But the later a bus is, the more modern all the components are, the more reliable it is, the easier it is to service and get serviced, the easier it is to get parts, etc. The modern 4 stroke diesels are very powerful and torquy, the transmissions (like the Allison B500) are totally operated on their own, like you don't have to shift manually like for a HT740. That 8V71 is a great engine, but it will be slow up the hills.

I love the older buses. Particularly MCI, because that is what I used to drive in the old days. I still love my 5C. But I drive late model MCIs and Prevosts at my part time job for a charter company, and I can tell you the modern stuff is day and night compared to the older buses.

I would buy the latest model you can afford. Preferably MCI 

JC

[oldmansax]

But the later a bus is, the more modern all the components are, the more reliable it is, the easier it is to service and get serviced, the easier it is to get parts, etc. The modern 4 stroke diesels are very powerful and torquy, the transmissions (like the Allison B500) are totally operated on their own, like you don't have to shift manually like for a HT740. That 8V71 is a great engine, but it will be slow up the hills.
JC

Let the mayhem begin!   

I don't know that I can agree on being more reliable FOR OUR USE. If you are and entertainer and put lots of miles on the coach, maybe. But how many or us ever put 100K miles on a coach? As far as reliable, that's why Cliffords post peaked my interest. He has a B500 giving him problems. On the Wanderlodge and Foretravel boards, there are plenty of folks with new(er) engines/trannys that have major problems. I don't know how many times I see a post about "Help, do not shift light", "Help, engine no start" , " Help, coach runs 5 miles then goes in limp mode" . I never had a mechanical engine go in to limp; and, even if the shift cable broke, I could still crawl under the coach & put it in D.  You are right about  71s being slow, but 92s aren't too bad.

I guess the point I'm making is the old stuff seemed to be easier to maintain and just as reliable FOR OUR PURPOSES, as the new.

Then again, EVERYTHING was easier for me 40 years ago! 

TOM

[Jon]

I have had three Prevost coaches and as they got newer they got more complicated. My first was an 87 that was only about 21 months old when i bought it and it had DDEC and ATEC. It did not have any other computerized features or systems and when I sold it at 250,000 miles my most significant maintenance issue was a couple of relays (solenoids) that never seemed to last long. If I fast forward to my present coach it can be a nightmare, but it is not. It is not the latest with respect to complexity meaning the house and chassis using multiplexed electrical systems, but it is still over the top compared to the previous 2 coaches.

Bottom line, I would not go back because the systems are so user friendly and have been so reliable that it is by far the easiest coach to use. There is one caveat and that is if anything goes wrong I am on it immediately and will not let issues pile up. So far my entire repair history with the house or chassis electrical systems is the replacement of 2 relays and I know I have the potential to have serious expensive systems repairs, such as if the Crestron control system has issues, but we consider the bus a home when we use it and we do not consider ourselves campers or willing to rough it. We are too old and too spoiled now.

But I can tell you a poorly maintained newer coach can be a nightmare.

[Lin]

We have a 1965 MC5a. I would not go to an older coach.  Although somehow I think that question was not directed at the likes of me.  I will add that I have sometimes thought it would be nice to have a newer four stroke or pondered whether a more standard motorhome would be more practical, yet I do not think I will do anything differently in the foreseeable future.

[luvrbus]

Olde Jon likes to control everything in the coach from his easy chair with a remote.The Crestron system is nice only problem they get outdated about every year and then it is $$$$$.
I hate it when ones goes down and I am paying some geek $125.00 per hr with a laptop watching the system boot up for hours 

[uncle ned]

I think Dan and Scott are with me.  I would not trade HUGGY for any new fangled coach made and sure not for a 40 ft beast that is 13.6 high.

Would not last where I go. and I have no need for 50 amp service except to loan to my friends when their onan quits.

Huggy has just enough of newness to drive good and be a pleasure to go anywhere I want.

uncle ned

1952 4104 gm  #172

[DoubleEagle]

I'm deep into mechanical Eagle's, and will be for some time, but that MCI 7 is mighty attractive at the right price. I suspect the reserve is at least $50,000 or more. If you have lot's of money and can pay garages whatever they want to fix something newer and computerized, then go for four-strokes, but if you are of more modest means and like to fix things yourself, then stay mechanical. Two strokes with Allison's are golden in my opinion.

[luvrbus]

LOL I can tell you one thing  a broom handle is useless on a B500  for shifting

[dtcerrato]

We're with uncle Ned, it's in the past for us. Even more over cause we are gear heads. It keeps my right arm strong since I laid off of other things... We love the simplicity at least in that spectrum of our lives cause everything is movin' kinda fast these days so when we're crawling up a steep grade we just set back & enjoy the hell out of it and smell the roses along the way.

[Stormcloud]

I purposely looked for a coach that was mechanical.....no electronics.    Keeping it simple makes repairs easier, and likely cheaper.

Sure the 8V doesnt get the fuel economy that a 4 stroke does, and it may be a tad sluggish up hills, but I have yet to have any issue that left us 'dead in the water'.   I remember reading a few years back about a guy with a newer Prevost that he couldn't use for weeks, and he found the problem completely by accident.....a corroded ground wire that disabled the computer(s).

Mark

[lostagain]

Old versus new is a matter of personal taste. And finances too, as newer costs more. I love old MCIs because that is what I drove in the 70s. But that is just me. But I also have stayed somewhat abreast of bus progress by driving here and there and part time my whole life. So I am in a position to tell you that the newer models are far better in terms of performance, reliability, drivability and durability (more stainless steel= less rust). Yes the bus boards and facebook groups are full of breakdowns and problem solving, but you don't hear much about the hundred thousands of trouble free miles driven with both the old mechanical, and the newer electronic cars, both in private and revenue service. My experience with buses and trucks since they started to go electronic in the '80s, is that they are increasingly easier to service and more reliable. I looked after a MCI D3 with S60 for a hockey team for several years, and never had any trouble with anything electronic. The usual maintenance related to brakes, suspension and the like remains the same as the old buses. But you don't have to run the rack on an electronic engine. You tune it up with software, and it doesn't go out of adjustment. I was reading recently how electronic engines and emissions systems are getting a lot more trouble free and reliable the last 4 to 5 years, so that buses and trucks aren't shut down on the side of the road as much as they were before. Sure, not many bus nuts on this board are in the market for a less than 5 year old bus, but this just illustrates my view of modernization in buses. The buses I drive for the charter company don't have electronic problems. They have the normal mechanical issues like any vehicle, like brakes wear out, radiators spring a leak on occasion, etc. But they are SO much nicer to drive...

JC

[lostagain]

An old bus with a 2 stoke Detroit is great, as long as you can maintain and fix it yourself. If not, a bus nut is better off with a later 4 stroke that any truck shop can deal with.

JC

[Geoff]

I hate paying for any kind of repairs that I can do myself.  I have an '82 RTS mechanical that I have had for 25 years and I can fix any anything on the bus/conversion because I built it.  Not for sale in my lifetime.

--Geoff

[luvrbus]

If you ever drive a bus with a 60 series and B500 you will love it, sure you get hiccups every so often you do on mechanical engines too.
I like the DL3 a 45 ft bus with a turning radius about the same as a 35 ft MCI 5 or GM with the air bags mounted outwards they ride and drive like a dream nothing like a older MCI or GM where you chased the dishes when you made corner to fast