8V71N bus - bad decision?

[Lin]

For most of us, we do the best we can with what we have.  Drive train swaps are very expensive.  We did get rid of the Spicer for an Allison, which was a wonderful upgrade.  At the time we did that, we probably could have gotten a used 6V92/740 package rather than the rebuilt 647 for within the same price range.  Looking back, I often think we should have.  Of course, if we did and the used package failed, we would not have been that happy.

The issue of 8V71 verses a more powerful engine is similar to the manual verses the automatic transmission question.  Although some are happy enough with the manual transmission, you will find that transmission swaps are always from manual to auto, never the other way.  That is really telling about which is preferable.  Similarly, I have never heard of anyone doing an engine swap for less power or even expressing such a desire.  If I were to buy another bus, I would go for the strongest, most modern engine I could afford.  So, If you are buying a bus with an 8V71 because that is what you can afford, go ahead and enjoy it.  As many have said, and you will manage fine.  But you will be happier with one that can pull a hill at a more reasonable speed.  If you are a person that thinks that crawling up a grade is the best time to enjoy scenery, you can still go as slow as you want.

[Scott & Heather]

I am not going to argue for whether more power or
Less power is desirable, but I will say that I know for a fact based on your price range, that if you're patient you absolutely can find a nicely converted coach with a turbocharged 6v92 in it. Don and I have had some private conversations and I know if he can keep searching and hold out, he can and will find a turbo charged coach that is already nicely converted in his price range. And that would be my advice.


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[Uncle Augie]

The issue of 8V71 verses a more powerful engine is similar to the manual verses the automatic transmission question.  Although some are happy enough with the manual transmission, you will find that transmission swaps are always from manual to auto, never the other way.  That is really telling about which is preferable. 

I dont believe you can make this generalization. Most who are swapping to an auto are getting on in years. this isnt a knock, but rather the truth. A manual, at least the ones being discussed, gets better MPG than the auto, but requires less work to drive. Im willing to put in the work, aka the Manual is better IMHO.

So unless you qualify your statement with bounds, it is false.

[scanzel]

I have a 1989 Prevost with the 8V92 with the six speed standard, would an auto be nice, sure. But I don't have an ecm to worry about, it seems that everyone is always having issues with ecu's so I will just enjoy my electronic free standard. My wife always tells me I am grinding gears at times, I tell her if I round sharp edges off it will slip into gear easier. Wait and the right bus will come along.

[luvrbus]

Automatic have better start ability than a manual transmission and not has hard on the engine crankshaft bearings, and mileage only falls off in city driving IMO the auto is worth giving up maybe 1 mpg

[sledhead]

the old horse power and torque problem . I started with a mci 102c3 with a 6v92ta set at 270 hp had it rebuilt ( out of frame ) then had it turned up to 350 hp wow that was nice . then got a deal on a rv with 550 hp with over 1800 lbs of torque ..... all hills are now flat now . would I go back .. no way

happy happy happy !

take your time the deals are out there

dave
 

[DoubleEagle]

My wife always tells me I am grinding gears at times, I tell her if I round sharp edges off it will slip into gear easier.

Maybe, but if you chip off a piece of a gear tooth and it gets between two gears, you won't be able to hide the noise from your wife, and it might not slip into gear again. 

[buswarrior]

No free lunch?

All that hill climbing power burns fuel hard?

My 8V71/HT740 climbed Fancy Gap on I77 in VA at 43-45 mph in 3rd gear.

Back a while ago, a new MCI Renaissance EL3 with S60 and B500 World auto, I climbed it at 50 mph, 4th or 5th gear, didn't matter.

6V92 Turbo (any turbo) will be nice in higher west coast elevations, but trying to squirt out into traffic from a stop, the 8V71 launches stronger.

Are you buying the coach to camp in, or to drive around?

It costs large in energy to make a coach keep up with the cars... and then it still won't climb for you the way you thought it should...

Take whatever engine comes in the coach that will serve your camping needs...?

Take whatever coach comes with the drivetrain that your driving needs dictate...?

There's nothing wrong with an 8V71, and as a bonus, it won't care about EMP, natural or man-made?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[kyle4501]

Patience will be rewarded.

Most are happiest with more power than you need & an automatic.

Not as big of a crowd looking for mechanical 8v92's. 1988 was the first year for computer control on the 8v92, so the coaches with mechanical engines will likely have a dated interior . . . . .

Lucky for me, I like the dated interior in mine.     

buswarrior brings up some excellent points. Fuel mileage is not that big of a deal to me, not when compared to the comfort of driving it. 

[eagle19952]

melting an 8V92 pulling grades out west is a very easy thing to do...at best the cooling systems are the weak link...
sure there are hills back east.
but they ain't the Rockies.
i would be more concerned about a 35 year old cooling system than any other system on a coach.
if it doesn't have an over temp - low coolant shut down i would be very hesitant. you never know how close it has come to a melt.

notice i did not say warning buzzer light system.
i want a shut down. in the middle of a 6 lane interstate, before i would do without it.

[windtrader]

Our intended use is for recreational/seasonal getaway use, so the amount of time spent slogging up long grades is pretty minimal overall. It's not like we are putting lots of miles on travelling between trade/festival shows on a regular and ongoing basis.

RJ and others have pointed out the actual additional time is really not that much so an 8V92TA or Series 60 motor would be super, doing the putt-putt from time to time is part of the compromise.

Waiting for a solid converted coach like a 102x3 with a 92 or 50 series motor come to market at a fair price might be awhile. Over the past few months, either I've not been looking well enough and missing them or it seems there are far fewer of those late 80's - early 90's coming on.

I do know the mid 90's Series 60 coaches sell at 15k or so with seats and fully converted ones seem way over my limit, no surprise. The DDEC is a positive to me. I'm a tech guy anyway but like the more advanced features and logging. Maybe it's a hassle to get to a reader but it seems there is a lot of info in there to better understand what is going on.


Scott and others who have been around offer encouragement to sit on the wallet a bit longer. I'll do a full scan of what's been offered again looking for more powerful converted coaches.

Thanks again for all the support here.

[luvrbus]

 Maybe it's a hassle to get to a reader but it seems there is a lot of info in there to better understand what is going on.

LOL Pro/Link hand held readers and the software is going away, what is out there now for sale is all there is.All the manufactures are going to the Link System that is the great computer in the sky one code system and $600.00 a year to access.It is already here you can buy a some models of Pro/Link for as little as 50 bucks now.We have enough outlaws to keep our electronic buses going though for several years IMO 

[windtrader]

Maybe it's a hassle to get to a reader but it seems there is a lot of info in there to better understand what is going on.

LOL Pro/Link hand held readers and the software is going away, what is out there now for sale is all there is.All the manufactures are going to the Link System that is the great computer in the sky one code system and $600.00 a year to access.It is already here you can buy a some models of Pro/Link for as little as 50 bucks now.We have enough outlaws to keep our electronic buses going though for several years IMO 

I spoke to a small tour/charter operator who gave me the idea to use a local guy to get the log dumped for a small fee.

But I stopped researching the ECU like DDEC 3/4 on Series 60 when I got off the DIY conversation option.

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[Geoff]

I think you talked to​ Dave from SF who is having an engine swapped at Bay Cities Diesel in Benicia.  He just posted that he is giving away his donor bus.  So here is a free shell that you could spend your money on the repower of your choice.  Buy a transit bus for a modern powertrain with all the wiring and components you need.  But, this is probably overwhelming.

--Geoff

[windtrader]

I've been convinced completely that starting with an already converted is the right path for me. Realistically, there is not enough time, energy, and money to get a fully converted coach on the road in an acceptable timeframe. The online groups have provided the wisdom to take the practical path to getting on the road with a solid and fully functional coach. If I do get bit really hard later, a ground up conversion project might work out in parallel with another roadworthy coach but way too much to consider right now.

I did contact Dave as he is so close and offered some free hands to wrench some parts off just to get up close and dirty with these beasts. He said next week was the timeframe for the coach to get to Benicia. He implied there wasn't much time so not sure if I can get over there in his window.