Options, Advice, Decisions Part 2

[windtrader]

Major decision made on the motor and coach type. That will narrow the search quite a bit.

Ideal target is mid-90's MCI 102D3 with Series 60 12.7 pre-EGR motor, Allison B500.

Looked at two today. Both were bought used from MCI directly and kept in fleet and on the road until the end of 2016. Coaches look very clean and rust free as run exclusively in CA. Motor and tranny were rebuilt 164k ago, waiting to see full docs. Well serviced by fleet mechanic and 3rd party as needed. Solid history of 45 day inspections and annual CHP inspections. Until today, I assumed the yearly check was perfunctory but the owner informed me it was a major all day inspection, funded by the hefty quarterly PUC payments. Selling due to not wanting to put the $$ into the DPF conversion, rather add more newer buses clients want anyway. With odometer reading 0079507, it must have flipped right? So coach has just rolled over a million?

Thanks

[PP]

So Don, does this mean you're thinking that you're going to do your own conversion?

[dtcerrato]

Hi Don, I drove a 66 minibus for a lot of years, sold it in CA in 73. Bought a S&S class C, wrecked it on the Grapevine in 79 then we bought our 53 GMC 4104 & have been driving it ever since. Miss my VDub though... welcome aboard. Your getting our disease - have fun...

[Astro]

With a "all in"  budget of around $50K, I think its safe to assume he will do convertion himself considering year of coach being desired. What we have not heard yet is timeframe being considered for completion and time available to do research, engineering, parts procurement, installation and testing.

I had a lot of time and the skills, tools and shop to perform my re-conversion and it took me 8 months full-full time to complete and that was fundamentally the interior/systems only. I was working 16 hour days to get competed to leave on my winter trip. I seriously mis-judged my schedule and degree of difficulty and I converted commercial aircraft for a living for 40 years. In bus converting, you are the full team on everything from finance through cleanup. Depending on the quality outcome you seek. It can be a serious challenge, but I found it an enjoyable and rewarding one at that.

[bandsaw]

Windtrader, I am in the process of converting a 1998 H3-41.  I purchased the bus in 2011 and it is 50% complete.  I still have a day job and I spend about 1.5 days per week on the bus.  You really need to enjoy the project aspect of converting a bus.  The money just does not pencil out.  Living in Oregon near all of the RV and Motorhome factories I have been able to find most of the expensive conversion items for pennies on the dollar.  I have a shop where I can work inside and most of the tools were purchased before starting the project. I would not do it over again. I would go find a used factory conversion. 

As far as the comments on the buses you looked at.  The odometer has probably been replaced a couple of times.  California buses do not have rust but they are beat up by the pot holes and crappy roads.  I looked at several CA buses and the shock mounts were either broken or repaired. The frames around the baggage doors usually have multiple repairs. There are long hills and I would be concerned about over heating.  Have a reader hooked up and check the mileage and engine faults on the computer. 

Haul that dinosaur home, put it in your driveway, and it will start eating your money.

Bandsaw 

[windtrader]

Taking the 4 stroke decision puts me on course to do the conversion.

I've not seen any "already converted" 4 stroke bus projects in my price range. Those around are factory converted units that are all way north of 100K. In general it seems there are far fewer 4 stroke non-factory bus conversions.

Unless there is some really really special deal, the bus needs to be fully checked and very solid on delivery. Absolutely refuse starting out of the gate with a wrench in hand.

Timeframe.
Obviously, need to learn everything involved about early conversion steps but it seem logical to pull the seating and racks first. Pull panels and insulate. Hopefully, the full electrical and plumbing plans don't need to be completed first.

Getting bus useable for road trips: 3-6 months. That will be basically an insulated shell. Some form of shore power working, even if that is a subpanel wired for a few 110 outlets connecting to shore. Have not though any about going battery based. Will research pulling e-system from a wrecked e-car. Would be more than enough to run the entire bus. Charge up when on shore or on board generator.  I know ebike folks and others harvest power modules. Maybe some surplus "wall to wall" carpet, a few comfy chairs and couch. Table and chairs. Throw a bed in there. Keep all glass intact. Affix insulated materials and blackout on some.  "Curtains" on others for privacy. A few light fixtures. Who knows, maybe some table lamps bolted down.

One year mark - would hope to have permanent layout finalized, get the fresh, grey, and black water in. Some form of power system working. Some fixtures in place like kitchen, bathroom, shower, refrig, stove. heating/cooling?

two years out - With a lot of good luck, get final power system operational, complete coach outfitting including cabinets, fit and finish.

This is all just a huge swag but the general theme is getting bus stripped and insulated, do some minimal improvements, start using it, then over time complete tested upgrades over the following year or two. No hurry and no grandiose intentions.

You all know far better than me the millions of small things that will slow things down, go off course, dent the checkbook endlessly, etc.

[windtrader]

@bandsaw - Thanks for the honest comments. Until I write the check and drive off, I am still open and listening to being pulled off the ledge. I really do need to think very hard about going DIY. Like you, I do plan to source as many parts from other projects and yards as possible. I've not checked any out but there surely are RV boneyards where good working tanks, fittings, and various systems can be had way below new.

A big amount of soul searching is in order and appreciate the folks here for the frank feedback, sound advice, and warnings. Before i pull the trigger, I will spend copious amounts of time inside a few fully fitted RV to see the full extent of the installed systems and translate that into a work and parts list to DIY. Very well may run out of paper and pencils before I get through. A sobering exercise I am sure.

Thanks again to all.

[Astro]

Absolutely refuse starting out of the gate with a wrench in hand.

Ha Ha ..Now that's funny!

Windtrader, if you expect you are a busnut, your going to wish each of your fingers were a different sized wrench. The first day with your bus might be the only day you don't have a wrench in your hand.

If it isn't because you need one, it will be because you want one.

[bevans6]

My bus had 20 years in service when it retired, much like the one you are looking at - mid 1990's to current.  At 100K a year that's 2 million miles.  Ask them what their normal annual mileage is.  Otherwise sounds like you're taking a route that I would consider a good one.  I haven't sourced anything from a salvage or used RV boneyard type place, but I have bought at far below retail from RV places blowing out old stock, bankruptcies, etc.  Some things I want new - electronics, for example, other things - electrical panels, breakers, wire - you can reuse, recycle.  Plumbing I did all new.

[Oonrahnjay]

... Absolutely refuse starting out of the gate with a wrench in hand. ... 

Ha Ha ..Now that's funny!

Windtrader, if you expect you are a busnut, your going to wish each of your fingers were a different sized wrench. The first day with your bus might be the only day you don't have a wrench in your hand.
If it isn't because you need one, it will be because you want one.

[windtrader]

Hum.. The point is I want as solid a rig to start with, fully knowing there will be plenty of opportunities for getting hands dirty. Hopefully, only scheduled maintenance service, a part replacement here or there, brakes, tires, but no major service issues.

[PP]

I know there are quite a few here that will disagree, but for me, the tires and brakes were a major service issue 

[Utahclaimjumper]

  How can they NOT be an issue??, without them you don't drive.>>>Dan

[John316]

Absolutely refuse starting out of the gate with a wrench in hand.

If that's the case, then I very strongly suggest a pickup and a trailer. Trust me. This is the very reason why I probably will never own another bus, unless I have no alternative. I have helped multiple people, who bought solid buses, and broke down on their way home. A bus has a lot of systems that can break. While it is a good fit for some people, they take a lot of work.

If you aren't a fan of wrenching, keep looking. I'm serious. Buses are crazy expensive, even if you get a good deal on one.

FWIW

John

[Geoff]

I agree.  Going for a bus conversion is not for everyone.  You better beware to buy a 20 year old bus, spend a fortune converting it, and spend another fortune paying for all the mechanical repairs that should have been done before you started the conversion.  And end up with something that is worth pennies on the dollar for the time and money you spent on it.  I know very few people that can do all this.  I would bet 9 out of 10 conversions never get to the being usable point.  And even fewer get to the envy point.  And then everyone who doesn't have a clue to what you have accomplished just think you are a nut.  And that sums up being a bus-nut.

--Geoff