Options, Advice, Decisions Part 1

[windtrader]

Not even sure how to start.  Over many years of venturing into new hobbies and interest, you bus nuts are the oddest folk. Number one advice -  Go buy an RV, have fun, and save lots of money and headaches!

Well, y'all have reasons for hanging out here so let's just say mine qualify me as a nut too.   


OPTIONS
There are so many ways to do this, my idea is to identify a few major decision criteria that focuses the search for a bus. I have done a fair amount of research thus far and think this makes sense. I look forward to getting feedback from those with all the history and experience with this.

1) Buy a used factory RV.
It is amazing how inexpensive very clean, low mileage, used factory RV are selling for in todays market. There are so many good reasons for taking this route, especially for those who haven't lived on the road for months at a time. Exploring this option elsewhere.

2) Buy an already converted bus
Pushing the start button gets you rolling right away, remodeled as desired and as time/budget permit, and almost surely minimizes total cash outlay outfitting the bus.

Based on budget and market offerings, most options are DD 2 stroke in an earlier MCI coach, maybe an older factory conversion. Key consideration of DIY conversion is quality and amount of rework needed.

Even though it will cost you less getting "your" bus ready to go (redo included), significant risks lurk. Many a poor soul faced bank breaking repair bills for a fresh rebuilt motor. Whatever was saved upfront can be easily overshadowed with a major mechanical breakdown.

These older bus require more maintenance and cost. Everything is older: suspension, brakes, rubber, electrics. They only get more worn and unreliable meaning more cost to maintain and fix down the road

These older motors are less fuel efficient, costing more over higher MPG plants. The longer the road trips the more this matters.

3) DIY bus.
This option is guaranteed to cost the most, take the longest, consume the most labor, assume the most risks, and creates the most stress. Only a certified bus nut chooses this path. Not sure if this requires starting certified nuts or earn that along the way. LOL

OPTIONS - For bus nuts only.
My approach defines key criteria to develop short list of potential buses. Naturally, everyone wants the most roadworthy, dependable, fuel efficient, powerful, low mileage, and newest bus for the least dollars. Now, the compromises.

DD Series 60, pre-EGR DDECx power plant
This option answers a number of criteria: 2 vs 4 stroke, fuel efficiency, service and parts. Most agree a more modern 4 stroke offers the improved operational benefits over a 2 stroke. Some love the sound of a 2 stroke, the nostalgia and memories, vintage, and electronics free motors.

Advantages are affordable price (vs newer generations), electronics offering improved diagnostics, running history, and logging of motor functions and events providing improved maintainability and motor assessment. Pre-EGR means less complexity and fewer systems running the motor and less costly to maintain. Newer means improved chance of documented service history.

Allison B500 transmission
Often mated to the DD Series 60. Advantages are the 5 speed automatic, durability, and low maintenance.

40' Coach Length
This length offers the most overall benefits, balancing space on board and underneath, maneuverability and drivability, access to parks, etc.

102" Width
The added width increases comfort beyond the physical 6" while not affecting drivability or access to parks.

Height non-issue
Both of us being under 6' standard height is sufficient. 102" coaches seems taller which is fine. Added exterior height doesn't seem to create on road issues.

Budget 15k-20k

Availability - The more the better
The more produced means more parts and service options, better chance of getting quality service at lower cost.

Coach design, conversion considerations
Generic box is fine, not a priority.  Coach offering the least complications during conversion is desired. Presently, not come across this is a concern or issue.


SHOPPING SHORT LIST
Using the criteria indicates something like a mid-late 90's MCI 102D3. Benefits include high production, many available in the US, broad access to service and parts, lower cost to operate. Other coaches suffer much lower production meaning more costly and difficulty finding service, especially if unplanned breakdown on the road.

Looking forward hearing from the vast body of knowledge and experience here.

Thanks
don

[sixtyseven]

If you want a good coach you should buy a Prevost.  They,re a lot better than the MCI's and Eagles.     That statement should get similar results to throwing rocks at a wasp's nest. 
No seriously, it looks like you have been doing some research.  Keep it up and soon you will know want you want better than we do.    The best advise I can give you is when you go look at a coach, you will be so excited about actually owning your own that you have a tendency to turn a blind eye to potential serous problems.   Don't do that.   Take time to think things over and remember there's always another one out there.   When I was looking I almost bought a couple of real Junkers thinking "I can fix that".   I'm sure glad now that I passed them up and ended up with the one I have.   Good luck

[Zephod]

The cheapest motorhome in tidy condition was $10k. My bus was $4k plus parts and labour.


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[robertglines1]

Go to   pevostcar.com     this is the support/parts  etc for prevost.      If you need a ID to example    use W-6553  which is my unit number...     Windshield sale now $179ea delivered(example)..   Most brands (I have had 3) have parts if you work looking.  You got to love the look and feel  the attraction to what you pick.    Bob

[lostagain]

Pre EGR means not so much less electronics, but more importantly more power 

Keep looking for a bus already converted for sure. A D3 would be good. Although we enjoy our 5C at 35 feet is really handy. The most important thing is the condition of what you look at, not so much the age. Look for no corrosion, and well maintained mechanicals. Good luck.

JC

[Scott & Heather]

The cheapest motorhome in tidy condition was $10k. My bus was $4k plus parts and labour.


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Disclaimer: You have a retired school bus. There is a bit of difference between that and an OTR Highway coach and the prices reflect this.

Original Poster: you seem to already have plenty of good info rolling around in your head. Buses aren't the cheapest way to go. I can't explain it, but there's just something about owning one and living in one that just separates us from the sea of production RV's out there. At the moment we are parked in the largest Jellystone Park in the nation....and we are the ONLY coach bus. And it has really been a conversation starter with our neighbors. We seem to give tours of the bus every week. For the most part we don't mind. I have never lived "inside the box" per se so owning a coach bus is a unique experience my wife and I really enjoy. That being said........

If I were truly being practical...all sentiment aside, I would seriously (and may someday) consider buying a nice used Class A diesel pusher RV. Something nice...newell or the like. Better MPG, professional design, all done (no self conversion needed), etc etc etc.

Summary: buy a bus cause you like buses. If you just want a nice RV, buy a nice RV.

[luvrbus]

I would go as far to say the Prevost which is a good coach with a way over the top engineered air system is the best bus,no bus should have that many Norgren Valves.
I had one that used 5 Norgren valves just to close the friggn door.
The Eagle is by far the easiest and simple designed bus ever made and probably the best bus ever made but rust was the problem IMO.
Eagle had IFS( independent front suspension) since 1958 took the other Prevost till 1996 to try and developed one that gave the owners fits, I owned 1.The MCI is the work horse of the American highways though they have that market by huge numbers it has to be reason and the price is almost the same for a Prevost or a MCI  

[windtrader]

I love this place. You are so generous with your knowledge and happy to share.

@sixtyseven - Being here in NorCal, there are plenty of coaches nearby to go see. Fortunately, I'm in no rush so hoping to not do something impulsive on such a risky venture with so many ways to cause financial ruin. Having read enough really sad stories of broken motors alone, this alone keeps me focused on short listing potentials with plenty of documented history AND a professional bus mechanic survey. I find the busses that are commercial and still in service the best bets for having documentation and history including CHP and DOT inspections. Once a bus goes private all bets are off. Still need to be very careful since there is likely a reason a commercial bus is being removed from the fleet. Ideally a series of previous oil analysis reports would be available; haven't asked that as yet.

@Zephod - Glad to hear from you. My planned use demands the coach be reliable as can be. Planning length journeys far from home base, so really need to minimize trip halting mechanical problems while on the road. Unless I am misreading the current market, 15-20k is the lower end for solid and documented Series 60 powered bus.

@Robert - Will do. My research to date indicates Prevost are more expensive and beyond my budget. They do beam luxury rolling down the road; however,  my criteria prioritize more mundane, utilitarian, and sadly practical qualities.

@lostagain - The current challenge is finding already converted D3 coaches. Increasing budget would find Series 60 or similar powered conversions but private ones are rare and factory conversions are very expensive. Will keep an eye out for them, just feel odds are not good. What is the market range for this kind of rig?

@SCott&Heather - OMG! Another non-conformist. I never use what others have as a criteria for what I want. I'm not looking for attention either but just want things that work for me. More about me. I am a die hard DIYer and have lots of experience and tools to bring to a bus conversion. I'll sub out what makes sense but I have no hesitation to take on something new either, expanding my DIY skills too.

Another key factor leading me toward a personal conversion is I really don't like the vast number of factory RV styles and features. Just seems like most are targeted to a market segment with very different tastes than us. What I envision is something I have never seen in pictures, although I am sure there are those with quite atypical layouts and styling. Additionally, being a minimalist I feel costs will remain on the lower end of the range. Shoot, truth be told, I can see taking a first road trip with a bed, a refrig, table for preparing and cooking with a camp stove , a couple of comfy chairs, and a card table to eat on. Really. Let the design evolve organically and speak to our true use and needs.

Lastly, I'd like to exploit the newest battery, inverter, lighting, and solar technologies to power the house power systems. Can't wait to take on challenge of designing the most efficient system. When one thinks about powering a car with batteries, it doesn't seem so far fetched to run a RV house system for a few days off the grid. Just think, no generator. I do think one can get a wrecked Leaf or other e-car and harvest the battery, transformer,  and AC power charging system for less than a new 7500 Onan. Who does that?

@luvrbus - Will look at Eagle. For some reason avoided them in my research for some reason. I agree MCI is pervasive and that is why I want one as that means qualified service and parts (new and used) are available in the most places. I'm really concerned about finding a qualified 2-stroke bus mechanic if an unplanned break down. Not sure if I agree MCI and Prevost are similar in price.

[luvrbus]

I have friend in Phoenix that just bought 2 model E MCI's with all the bells and whistles he paid almost 700 grand ea and told me he could have bought the H-45 for 25k less but didn't want to deal with Volvo D13 engine so they are close in price

[windtrader]

almost 700 grand ea

That sounds kind of expensive, way beyond my budget.

[eagle19952]

If you want a good coach you should buy a Prevost.  They,re a lot better than the MCI's and Eagles.     That statement should get similar results to throwing rocks at a wasp's nest. 
No seriously, it looks like you have been doing some research.  Keep it up and soon you will know want you want better than we do.    The best advise I can give you is when you go look at a coach, you will be so excited about actually owning your own that you have a tendency to turn a blind eye to potential serious problems.   Don't do that.   Take time to think things over and remember there's always another one out there.   When I was looking I almost bought a couple of real Junkers thinking "I can fix that".   I'm sure glad now that I passed them up and ended up with the one I have.   Good luck

I'm pretty sure that the only bad year for a Prevost was 1985. Beyond that, I have no further input.   

[kyle4501]

I went to plenty of RV shows - I never saw a floor plan that 'fit'. I didn't see anything in my desired price range either.

Bought a PD4501 & spent years collecting the parts to build the floor plan that fit my needs/ desires. Finally, I had all the original components I needed. Then I was able to prepare a list the required components and where to buy them.

Then everything changed. One Friday night, we were able to look inside a ~30 year old Newell. WOW, the build quality was just what I had envisioned for my conversion. The mechanical systems were spot on - almost exactly what I had already planned for.
The next day, my wife found one on the internet for significantly less than we had budgeted for parts. I found another similar Newell locally to tour. then it was off to Texas to see the one on the internet. When I walked in, I KNEW it was the one for us. We bought it & have had no regrets. And, we are using it NOW!
The guys here are GREAT with their advice.

I LOVE the 8V92 in my Newell - Come to think of it, I would love any engine that ran as good.

Good luck in your search!

[PP]

I'm pretty sure that the only bad year for a Prevost was 1985. Beyond that, I have no further input.   

Prevost's are like a fine wine, they just get better with age! 

[opus]

Most Eagles have hidden rust issues, have someone knowledgable of this check it out if you go that route.

[eagle19952]

Most Eagles have hidden rust issues, have someone knowledgeable of this check it out if you go that route.

And that is sound advice. But, be certain that your inspector knows what parts are structural, which are not and which are easily repaired