Power inverter

[DubLloyd]

   Now you're getting it.  An inverter "inverts" 12 or 24V dc (just like the lights and starter on your car) into 120V ac (alternating current) just like your house.  Anything that you can run in a house, you can run on an inverter -- assuming that the inverter is big enough (has the capacity to output enough 120V current) to run the appliance.

   A basic is that it's all in "watts".  If you run a refrigerator at 5 amps on 120V ac current, you're pulling 600 watts.  To make that 600 watts ac, the inverter would have to draw 600 watts out of the batteries and at 12V dc, that means that the batteries must supply 50 amps at 12V (or 25 amps if it's a 24V system). 

   Since you're using electricity over time, this is usually expressed as watts/per hour and since the amount of power builds up, it's often expressed as "kilowatts/hour" (like on your electric bill at home).  600 watts for 8 hours would be 4.0 Kw/Hr. 

   So you can calculate - if your water heater takes 15 minutes to heat up enough for a shower and dish washing and it runs at 1500 watts, you can calculate that it would take 1500 watts/hr or 375 watt/hr for that 15 minutes.  A big truck battery called an 8D size is good for about 425 amps/hr (or 425 x 12V or 5100 watts).  Since you don't want to draw a battery down more than 50%, that gives you 2600 "useful" watts.  So running your water heater for 15 minutes uses about 15 - 18% of the juice available in that battery.

   This is the basics of how it works.  You figure your amp/ or /wattage use of each item you need to run, then total it up, figure the watt/hours and then divide that into the battery capacity you have -- or multiply the amount of current you need to tell you how many batteries you need to buy.

    The trick with an "inverter-charger" is that is you're supplying 120V by a power cord, the power is split.  Some goes to running your items, some is used by the inverter to charge your batteries back up.  Same thing when you're running a generator.

    Is this starting to make any sense?  It is a little "detail-dense" but once you get how the details work, it gets pretty straght-forward.  HTH,  BH  NC  USA

Yes, its making sense. I just need a calculator to arrive at my needs and size my inverter to where it actually has the ability to produce what I need and some extra. I guess I cheated myself by manipulating high school math to where I took basic math from the 8th grade till I graduated.  Or mabe some of that stuff I was doin when I was cutting class. Thanks for taking the time to help me.

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[DubLloyd]

     OK, now here's the thing, we've all been where you are (well, most of us) and what it takes is putting together information.  I decided that I didn't want to have multiple sources of power for my refrigerator so I bought one that runs on 12V (dc).  That power comes right off the battery bank, like the headlights of a car when you're parked and the engine isn't running (not a good analogy, my fridge runs off about 1/3 the power that car headlights pull even when the fridge is starting up and running against the thermostat).  So, unfortunately, you have to check out everything you want to do.  A 12V fridge is pricey and usually small but it was forth the $$ to me and it's big enough for my needs -- what I have would probably drive a lot of people I know crazy.  Check out everything, LED lights for your interior lights, the size of microwave you want, do you want to run your water heater off your battery/inverter system?

I would like to run the hwh off propane since that would be the fuel for my range. I do have plumbing knowledge and would have no problem with water circulation to keep from water waste. I will have about 150 gallons of potable water storage. This bus will be for the most part Friday and Saturdays motocross races of the grandsons. 6 showers at the most, on muddy tracks, utility water for bike cleanup, yet that not the norm in MS, LA, AL in the summer. Food prep and cleanup may be excessive though

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[DubLloyd]

..2000.00+ dollars worth of pure sine wave is nice. but, if nothing needs it, u don't either...here's the deal...I have flat screen Roku Tv's, computers and cell phones and toasters and lites and who knows what...refridge 110v only and the only thing that sqwacks without a pure sine wave inverter is the microwave..a little. a good old trace u2512 is the holy grail for me... with a 100+ amp charger...this minimizes gen run times in national parks etc.


marine looking ones were white ithink rv black... i have found these for half that money or less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trace-U2512-U2512SB-RV-Marine-Power-Inverter-25-KW-Modified-Sine-Wave-/311791383737

Thanks, I am starting to get the picture now. So instead of buying a super quiet generator, I can just use the one we have during the day when noise is not a problem, and go the inverter route during the quiet times.. I would have to always have the fridg on the inverter feed. Right?

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[eagle19952]

Thanks, I am starting to get the picture now. So instead of buying a super quiet generator, I can just use the one we have during the day when noise is not a problem, and go the inverter route during the quiet times.. I would have to always have the fridg on the inverter feed. Right?

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i do. in fact an inverter with pass thru and all of my 110v is on my inverter. then when i do run the gen, with planning,  can bake bread, vacuum, charge batteries, and roast two chickens and have sausage for breakfast... my coach is all electric, 2 hours of gen...max. sustains my 20 gallon 110v hot water heater long enough to do the dishes and take 2 showers... i have spent 3 weeks in places like Death Valley.. in October grand canyon in may, just west of the Tetons in September , the national seashores in Texas and Florida. i would buy a 5-800 watt PSW inverter only ...no charger for any loads that required it...but, in 13 years of full-time...have not needed it....

[Iceni John]

..2000.00+ dollars worth of pure sine wave is nice. but, if nothing needs it, u don't either...here's the deal...I have flat screen Roku Tv's, computers and cell phones and toasters and lites and who knows what...refridge 110v only and the only thing that sqwacks without a pure sine wave inverter is the microwave..a little. a good old trace u2512 is the holy grail for me... with a 100+ amp charger...this minimizes gen run times in national parks etc.


marine looking ones were white ithink rv black... i have found these for half that money or less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trace-U2512-U2512SB-RV-Marine-Power-Inverter-25-KW-Modified-Sine-Wave-/311791383737

Wholesale Solar sells refurbished Magnum inverters  -  I bought my refurb MS2000 for $1000 instead of the regular $1800 or so, and I think it will be just fine for my occasional use.   I feel that a refurb Magnum is probably still better than some brand-new made-in-China POS.

Whatever you choose, please promise us you won't buy something like this:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/16000W-Peak-8000W-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-12VDC-220VAC-PowerTool-Converter/400900166285?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D2ee81c336c0a4ff0a4048b9d34b6aefe%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311791383737   My 2000 watt Magnum needs 4/0 cable and a 250 amp ANL fuse, so I can't even imagine what size cable is needed for that thing  -  8000 watts at 12 volts is a nominal 666 amps, and you'd need a 1400 amp fuse for the peak loads!   Caveat emptor!

John

PS  -  just noticed it's 220V, so you're saved!

[B_K]

But for $749 that is a SMOK'n Deal!
  BK 

[RobSedona]

But for $749 that is a SMOK'n Deal!
  BK 

Ya and when the smoke is out its all over!

been there done that!

Rob

[Oonrahnjay]

But for $749 that is a SMOK'n Deal!
  BK 

     Offirrsha quaratee contrara desinnaysahhn in Shanghai -- Ess Atche One Tee!!!

[eagle19952]

  I feel that a refurb Magnum is probably still better than some brand-new made-in-China POS.

That may be...but a used u2512 for 300$ and then add a 300 watt Chinese inverter POS PSW for the few electronics that demand it. seems a lot more $$$ effective to me.

https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-Power-Inverter-Smart-Adapter/dp/B01DP9JE18/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486416746&sr=8-1&keywords=300-Watt+Pure+Sine+Wave+Inverter

[Geoff]

If I had one of those Chinese inverters I would only use it if it was mounted on a trailer so when it blew up and caught on fire I would only lose the trailer and not the bus.

--Geoff

[daddysgirl]

This might be helpful for power once on the inside. And I think you'll understand it very well.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4500_1.html

[eagle19952]

This might be helpful for power once on the inside. And I think you'll understand it very well.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4500_1.html

A good inverter negates 90% of this unit and IMO, the charger in this unit would be redundant and is inadequate at 90 amps.

YMMV etc.

[DubLloyd]

This might be helpful for power once on the inside. And I think you'll understand it very well.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4500_1.html

Thank you. This would act just as ur breaker panel in ur home? Yet would also distribute the DC supply back to the battery bank but also power small lights that would be of DC voltage opetation?

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[DubLloyd]

Some use only 12 or 24 volt, some use both . some use 110. I used 110, 12 & 24 volt. All seperate with breakers for all. Refrigerator 3 way. We use it on 110 at RV parks, Gas on the road, but can also turn the genny on and use it on 110 on the road or dry camping if needed. We rarely use 12 volt on it even though it is an option it is not very efficient.
Microwave= 110 shore or genny, inverter with help from either if needed. Some lights with LED bulbs.
Plugs for computers, 110 or inverter for TV microwave, computers, chargers. Some plugs in bays for tools. On the exterior for tools and or plug in lights etc.
12 volts for radios, lights, Refrigerator controls, heater controls, Ac controls, LED's
24 volts Start batteries if your system is 24 volts there is a lot of stuff on the original coach that may be 24volts.
Inverter could be either 12 or 24.

Plumbing is easy. Fresh water with pump on outside line coming out of low point on tank then 1/2" pex or copper etc to your fixtures just like a house. You can make it more complicated with return lines and heaters for cold country but thats the basics. You will need a fill fitting on the outside of the bus to hook a garden hose to to fill the fresh water tank.

Black tank. Put toilet as close to right over it as possible because most toilets in RV are gravity.
Grey tank with collect all from your sink drains. The 2 (black and Grey) tanks will all drain  to a single drain and then out through a 3rd drain through a hose you hookup at a dump station.

HTH Dave

Thanks. I am beginning to see the lights and fridg on now. Yall have been a big help. And it was free.

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[DubLloyd]

TomC x2

In all these years of watching busnuts waste money trying to be cheap...Buy the good inverter charger first and sit back and enjoy it's functionality.

And proudly purchase one of the better SOC meters, State of Charge meters, so you can "see" how much power is going in and out. One that matches up with your inverter charger has advantages in simplicity and one stop shopping. Not every bunut is interested in the research and knowledge necessary to brew up a custom system.

You have to do some load measuring to arrive at an appropriate battery bank size. Remembering that keeping the consumer confused is in the interest of many of these vendors... you will need to teach yourself the different units of measure, and pick one to get all your numbers to add up correctly. hint hint Amp-hours is the common battery capacity measurement

A Kill-o-Watt meter off Amazon is a fabulous tool for every busnut to have, who plans to run off a battery bank. Plug your house refrigerator into it, and start gathering interesting data as to the power it consumes over time.

Beware of busnuts, their journey is often the destination...You don't want to be screwing around with a dysfunctional coach at the races, with guests and neighbours finding your antics both irritating and amusing at the same time! The system is there to serve you, not the other way around. Turn the key, throw a switch, pour a beverage.

At the races, your power consumption will likely be a lot higher than the busnut who says their prayers and goes to bed at sundown, doesn't open the fridge door all night and uses the lights for the 62 seconds necessary to find the outhouse...

As a starting place, 4 x 6 volt golf cart batteries will handily do the busnut described above. I suspect that your use might be a little close for 4?
One thing you can do to economize, is start with 4, design your battery area to accept adding more batteries, and try it out?

And what voltage are you going to use? 12 or 24?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Thanks for the advice. I can picture it now. Me trying to get this convoluted power going in the right direction with 25 rice burner wizards and 2 moto moms all giving advice, making suggestions. One would be amazed at all the backwood ways of getting things done at a Louisiana motocross track. Brother, u can see it all happen in the swamp and wonder how folk r not run over, jumped on, bbq ed boiled or electrocuted.  And ur advice is well taken on what to do thanks

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