Coach Cooling System Modification

[kyle4501]

Keith, you still won't share what your background is. Why? Are you afraid someone will ask for your help?

So far you don't come across as a realistic person, or at least not one that has done any planning at all.

Lets see;

I got a great deal on this bus so I'm gonna use it no matter what!

But first I'm gonna add slide outs &/ or stretch it 10 feet.

Now this engine that is so great is under powered, so I'll increase the power.

Now this great engine is so inefficient, so I'm gonna redesign the cooling system to fix that.

The transmission is shot so I'll be replacing that too.

This bus is so great, but the 60's technology is crap, so I'll redesign it to the modern technology level.

Let's not forget the trailer to be pulled by a vehicle that was not designed to do that either.


Am I missing something? Or do you just have this thing to reinvent the wheel?

Sorry if this is harsh, but I'm beginning to smell something here.

[tekebird]

Keith says he is a Mechanical Engineer/Electrical engineer, Master Auto Mechanic too. 

I agree with all your  points.......either BS, Crazy, someone with more brains than sense (alot of engineers are like thisin my experience)

every once in a blue moon there is a guy on this board or that board that likes to get rises out of people by proposing the absurd........

maybe they are lonely, ful of themselves, trying to boost there  'rating" on the board......

I have seen this too many times.......  I agree with your suspicions

[WorkingOnWise]

I've got the answer (s)

A remote front mounted radiator.......nope that would put weight forward of the front axle effecting handling

a roof mounted radiator.....nope that would raise the CG also screwing with the handling

AHHH..........a midship mounted radiator.....with a ducted roof scoop and a bank of squirel cage fans.........set it up similar to the MCI system which shuts off the airflow of the cage fans ( a squirel cage fan that is not moving air draws practically no power)

Ha...cute. Actually, all those may have merit, or a combination of them. I like the roof mounted idea. The hot air being lighter, would create lift, thus improving mileage. And, when it overheated, the lift would increase, reducing the load on the engine, thus reducing the fuel consumption, thus reducing the heat generated by the engine, causing the engine to cool down to a normal temp again. Good thinkin man!

Unfortunately, my issue is not to address an overheating condition caused by an poorly designed cooling system. It is to increase engine efficiency via increased operation temperature, while not inducing an overheat condition in the process, as I hace stated more that once it this thread, which you have clearly missed.



Wow kyle4501, I sure hope others don't read the thread you read!
I spent lots and lots of time training degree holding idiots how to do their job when I worked as a network admin and sheetmetal protorype machinist. I spent a lot of time explaining to engineers that just because you can draw it on your computer does not mean you can make here in the real world in a production environment. In both cases, these educated people did not understand the real world. Only their books. If the book says, it is. The ones who were open to listening, and understanding the problems between their ideas and the reality are the ones who had experience before and after their degree training.
With that said, I know for sure the the paper one holds is not worth the roll in their bathroom until they get into the real world, learn that there are other ways besides theirs, and that they do not know everything by nature or their paper.
When people insist on paper id, it usually means that the paper is what they base their opinion on, not the person holding it.

Lets see;

I got a great deal on this bus so I'm gonna use it no matter what!
Yes. So? It is very rare that I have more than a few $k to spend on any given item, and I don't carry debt except the house and a credit card. It is what it is.

But first I'm gonna add slide outs &/ or stretch it 10 feet.
If you will read, you will see that while I intent on structural mods, I am still in the planning stage, and in fact have decided to not stretch it, although the reason was for maneuverability and not engineering difficulties.

Now this engine that is so great is under powered, so I'll increase the power.
Yeah. So? Are all these guys fools that repowered their engines, or added turbos?
Hey, you! With the 400hp 8V71! Where do you think you're gong with all the extra power Mister?!

Now this great engine is so inefficient, so I'm gonna redesign the cooling system to fix that.
To want to increase efficiency is not the same as stating that the engine is inefficient. They are not reciprocal. The engine is efficient. I believe it can be more efficient.
Naw, that black smoke ain't cuza incumplete cumbuston. It'sa cuz weiz burnin coal tar. Don't make nears mucha mess iff'n it leaks. It just kinda ooooozes out slowlike.

The transmission is shot so I'll be replacing that too.
Um, yeah. So? The 2 spd is not real great, even in top form, right? The 3 spd is better, right? I can get a good V730 for $500, which means I can have it in my coach for under a grand. I fail to see the problem.

This bus is so great, but the 60's technology is crap, so I'll redesign it to the modern technology level.
Who said the 60's technology is crap, besides you? If it were crap, I would not even have a 41yo coach to work on!
So the 60's tech is good enough for us today, right? How big would the trailer need to be to carry the DDEC4 box and sensors if it were built with 1966 technology!? How big does the garage need to be that you put your 60's technology based Pentium 4 PC?
We just know more today than they knew then, and with that we can do better. I already said this, but clearly you missed it.
Whatcha all need thems slide ruelz fer? I gots this abacus, a tablet o'stone and a chisel. I'll git thems new numbers in a jiffy. .......... Be right back, gotta get some mortar to erase a number.

Let's not forget the trailer to be pulled by a vehicle that was not designed to do that either.
Um, ok. So no trailers either? Wow your rving life must be a blast!
Ok, everyone, unlock the hitch, drop the trailer jack, and pull slowly away from the trailer and no one will get hurt.

Am I missing something? Or do you just have this thing to reinvent the wheel?
You are missing a lot. As for reinventing the wheel, it sounds like if it were up to you the wheel was an silly thing to make. Dragging things around was good enough for them and it should be good enough for us by golly!

Sorry if this is harsh, but I'm beginning to smell something here.
Is there something to help you with that in your bathroom?

To the rest of you, I apologize. I should have done a better job of keeping my thread on-topic, especially in regards to the structural stuff, as that is in a different active thread, that some here decided to mix with this one. I'll do better at on-topic in the future.

Sorry and Thanks
Keith

[tekebird]

Keith's Updated Resume'

37 year old
mechanical Engineer
Electronic Engineer (whats the difference between electronic and electrical engineer?  Seriously)
Network Administrator
sheetmetal protorype machinist

On top of that he has trained plenty of other engineers that what they can design can't always be built.

He is  conservative and is OK driving 60 Max in anything over 10,000#

[WorkingOnWise]

Thankyou tekebird. Now that that is out in the open, we can all relax, and read the threads a bit closer.

[Len Silva]

Personally, I think fishbowls are pure de ugly, but if you like them there is a very interesting one on ebay (180106459544)  8V-71 with a stick and factory bays.  Might make a good start for someone though way overpriced.

[tekebird]

hot air casues lift?

thats a new one.......I know hout air rises but "lift"

[WorkingOnWise]

Len Silva- I saw that one on ebay. It got a look, but I agree, it is too expensive. That 8v71 in a 40' is pretty though.
As to the look, the fishbowl are very balck/white. Fortunately, my wife and I are the same color!
We love'em!

tekebird....now you know. I'm no engineer at all....i'm an illiterate high school drop out living in central park...you got a quarter mister?

[tekebird]

sounds that way because I have yet to see any good engineering verbage come off your posts.

A smart High Scool Student can spout what you are.

[skipn]

"(whats the difference between electronic and electrical engineer?  Seriously)"

  Smaller electrons 

  Skip
  BSCS class of 85 (spent 5 years writing programs for engineers)

[prevost82]

Yea ...I'm in your camp tekebird... there's one of these that pop up ever now and then.

And what the heck is a sheetmetal machinist. I have a machinist ticket ... never heard of that one ... maybe he means tool and die.

Ron

[WorkingOnWise]

And what the heck is a sheetmetal machinist. I have a machinist ticket ... never heard of that one ... maybe he means tool and die.

Ron

Ron, you have to read All the letters in a sentence....
I said "sheetmetal prototype machinist"
It involves thinking about how to do what has not been done, or in a way it hasn't been done yet, with sheetmetal, small castings, and sub assemblies. Simular to tool and die, but much more emphasis on tool and die design.

[pipes]

Mr workingUNwise.

"You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear"

I invented an electronic devise to clean the bird sh1t out of cukoo clocks..... I am real proud of meself !!!
No takers yet. I am worried the Chinese are going to steal my idea.

I just looked at my clock, it's time for me go to work The little hand is on 9 the small hand is on seven..

[kyle4501]

WorkingOnWise

ROTFLMAO
RE:When people insist on paper id, it usually means that the paper is what they base their opinion on, not the person holding it.

I wasn't looking for paper ID. I was interested in your point of reference to explain the inconsistancies & contradictions in your posts. Normally I don't care, but when things don't line up & the dots don't connect .  .  . well, lets just say the person holding it wasn't making a clear impression.
Your lack of formal training in statics, dynamics, kinematics, materials, thermodynamics, & etc shows in your posts.

I design machines every day & improvements can be a good thing - IF - you KNOW what you are improving. Before you can sucessfully improve something, you must understand why it was designed the way it was. BTW, I trained under a 65 year old master machinist.

Kieth, you need to loose the attitude that "engineers are idiots". I have respect for ALL trades. I have noticed that there are fools & idiots everywhere & no profession is immune from them.

I'm sure a sheetmetal prototype machinist can be of benefit to this board.

I've re-read some of the posts & one of the main reasons you gave for sticking with your current bus was the soundness of the engine. It just seems odd that this cornerstone of your conversion needs proping up.
A V-drive is quite limited in your choices.
A T-drive has lots more to choose from.
The cheaper you try to be with a bus, the more $$$ it'll cost you.


Whatever

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

[TomC]

What is not to evident with the Ebay 40ft fishbowl with under storage is that it has a raised floor like what was used in the 4501 Scenicruiser.  If you flaten it out, you only have about 6ft or bit more of headroom, compared to a flat floor that has 6'10".  And what about that steel plate that is rusting behind the front door-usually put in when a structural problem was detected.  Like on the 4501's that had steel plates installed between the windows because of cracking aluminum.  Good Luck, TomC