Scenicrusier 278 - rivets

[DandM]

Hi everyone...
Only been a year and a half since last posting, but here goes...
Rivets – all my skylights are damaged and leaking. All my fixes and patches have given up the fight. I now have some sheet aluminum to cover the openings with. I don't know the specific name of the rivets I want to use, so I will just call them POP rivets. I know I need to measure the thickness of the sheet aluminum and the thickness used on the bus to get the grip length necessary. But help me with this... I seem to remember something about a style of POP rivet and a spinning tool that was used after the rivet was set to smooth and seal the top side of the rivet to help prevent leaks thru the rivet. Does anyone know or remember the rivets, spinning tool I'm talking about? Maybe a link  to the appropriate supplier?
Thanks, Mike

[stanton]

3M5200

[Oonrahnjay]

      Some "pop" rivets will seal the center hole when they are installed (after the center armature if pulled tight and broken off) -- some will NOT.  Be sure you're getting sealed rivets. 
      Here are a couple of suppliers that I've used.  They seem to have a good selection and prices seem about right but I haven't bought enough to know if they're genuinely a good source.  Both seem to answer questions and offer advice.
       www.FairwayFasteners.com
       http://bylerrivet.com/

HTH,  BH

[dvrasor]

They are called shavehead rivets. Byler has them and
shaving tool the last time I checked

   Dave Rasor

[Jeff Willard]

Get the tools, do some practicing and then use the original solid rivets. It's not that hard to do. You can use a Zip gun (it's better to have a real rivet gun though) buy the setting tool set from Aircraft Tool Supply and any ol' chunk of steel as a bucking bar and the rivets are available from a number of places. I like Hanson Rivet.
Clean both surfaces well and using a sealant isn't a bad plan either.
Get the wife to help. Bucking rivets is a "Bonding" experience.

[luvrbus]

You can buy caps for the blind rivets and not use a shaver if you choose ,I use a lot of the Cherry Max blind rivets with the rubber installation in damp areas then cap them they are made for aircraft

[ol713]

   HI;
     fSI - - Fastening systems international.   800/344-2393
     Byler rivet  - -   800//325-3147
   
     Both of these advertise in BCM magazine.   Look up their ad.
     When  I was working in aircraft, we used to install rivets "wet".
     That is you dip the rivet in a sealant then install.  No worries
     about leaks.   We also used a grip gauge to measure the
     hole to find correct length of rivet.
                                           Good luck,    Merle.

[chessie4905]

Btw, the rivet GM used was referred as a mushroom head. They were anodized or treated like the panels. As far as using solid rivets, you are going to need someone on the other side to buck them that has a little experience. You will get this with some practice, but I have done hundreds of solid ones on my Brill and think you should go with a pop type. Shave heads are great but aren't as cheap as solids or common pop rivets, but have a sealing oring under the head to make them water tight.

[Jeff Willard]

That's why I mentioned the "Bonding" Experience you'll have with the wife. She can tell all her friends you spent the whole day bucking.

[Oonrahnjay]

That's why I mentioned the "Bonding" Experience you'll have with the wife. She can tell all her friends you spent the whole day bucking.

    And drilling and hammering and driving ...

[Jeff Willard]

It's all part of the busing "Experience"

[Oonrahnjay]

      Let's get real specific here.  You do NOT want any leaks from these locations once you've covered them with panels; water leaks in the roof can spread moisture all through your bus and ruin your complete interior.  You have at least three separate issues:
1)  You must seal the cover panels to the roof structure itself.  This isn't hard but you must be *very* careful about your process.  Especially, if you leave a lip or open crack on the leading edge of the cover panel, the pressure of driving in the rain is almost certain to force water into that crack and make it find even almost microscopic cracks and fissures in your sealing material.  You must get a good, complete seal between your existing roof and the cover panel - gaps, cracks, and air bubbles are NOT your friend.
2)  Water can run down the outside of the rivet, between the rivet body and the drilled hole the rivet is in.  As mentioned, a gasket or o-ring or other kind of sealing process is good here.
3)  Water can get in through the center of the rivet.  It's possible (but a big hairy PITA) to seal the cavity on each "pop" rivet once it's installed but it's probably better to get a rivet that's designed to be watertight internally in the first place.  

    What you're looking at is a critical job -- a job that will take thought, carefulness, and detail work.  Be sure you get it right.

[Jeff Willard]

The original rivet process lasted 60 years and is still going. Works great on those Aluminum Death Tubes that are hurtling through the sky as well. It all gets down to doing it correctly with the correct tools. That's why I mentioned the practice part. Sure, a pop rivet will hold in a three sided wallowed out hole that was drilled with a Black and Decker drill set from Ace Hardware. If you try to use that for a solid rivet it will leak and move around and ultimately fail. A solid rivet needs a very close tolerance hole. Number and Letter drills are required. A solid rivet needs to be the correct length for the thickness of joint being put together.
None of this is rocket science but, it requires some acquired tools and skills that, if you're going to properly maintain an antique coach, you need. Either that or the funds to take it somewhere that can do it for you. You will feel nothing put pride when you properly set a whole row of solid rivets and.... They're in a straight line....  they set properly because you measured the length right,,,,, and there aren't any "Smily Faces" (Those that know.... know ) You'll also think better of all those Rosie the Riveters still out there.

[DandM]

Hi Everyone...
Lots of good information being provided. But I don't think having the spouse helping on this project would do beneficial for either of us. So, we will just move forward from that conversation.
I just contacted Byler Rivets and they are sending me a catalogue. The form request for a catalogue on their web site doesn't work and they are trying to get it fixed. So, if you want one, call them.
As far as sealant between the bus and the new plate to cover the opening, I was wondering if using the windshield urethane sealer product would be a good investment. It seals windshields from water intrusion and in most situations does an excellent. What are everyone's thoughts on that? Does anyone have a product they have used in the past that they would use again?
Thanks,
Mike

[B_K]

Someone here will probably beat me to getting you a product name.
But we had to replace some flush fitting windows on one of our '05 Setras once and asked the foreman at the their shop in Greensboro, NC and he told me to hold tight he was sending me a tube of what they used.
The next day a pkg showed up by FedEx and sure enough was a tube of some sort of urethane with a hand written note describing the best way to use it for professional results!
The # 1 and most important thing that was repeated several times was to be sure and get everything super clean and dry before ever opening the tube.
It also said not to let it get wet until we were 100% positive it was like we wanted and then use a garden hose and wash all the way around the window being sure to it wet ALL the way around.
They said the water actually was what activated it and made it seal and stick!
Don't remember the brand name or actual product name, and I'm 300 miles from our shop.
I do know it worked like a charm and we never had a problem with those windows sealing afterwards!
  BK