Opinions needed!

[bevans6]

You said something in your first post that was a little incorrect.  You said that " if I can get the Governor back to full fuel position (hit the kill switch last year), and the air cylinder to remain open, I'll be golden".  On an MCI like you have, the kill switch, if you mean the emergency stop switch, has nothing to do with the governor.  It simply causes a solenoid to trip to allow a spring loaded flap inside the air intake above the blower rotors to close.  You can latch it back open by hand, and you can take the rubber hose to the air cleaner off to see if the flap is properly open.  But throwing the engine stop switch on the dash doesn' t do anything to the governor.

There are two levers on top of the governor.  looking at them from the back of the bus the right hand lever is the engine speed lever, it's connected by a cable to the accelerator pedal.  If you have fast idle there is an air cylinder that will push out and lock that lever closed if there is air pressure and the fast idle is on.  The left hand lever is the engine stop lever, also known as the no-fuel lever.  Twisting that lever clockwise puts the governor in no-fuel, and the engine stops running.  There is an air cylinder that pushes that lever if there is air pressure and the engine run switch is on, putting power to the skinner valve that controls the air cylinder.  Power on, engine runs, power off engine stops IF there is air pressure.

If the bus is aired down, like yours is, the engine will run if it turns over and has fuel.  The only way to stop it properly at that point is to twist the engine stop lever clockwise by hand (or with a stick, or a cable, I guess).  If you bypass the normal batteries with jump batteries, and start the engine it will run until it builds up air pressure.  Then, because the main batteries are disconnected the skinner valve has no power and air pressure pushes the engine stop lever slowly until the engine dies.  This causes no end of "WTF happened" until you figure it out, I know this because I did it...  Same with the emergency stop lever - it can trip on it's own, and much ado follows as you try to figure out why your bus engine turns over fine, issues copious amounts of white smoke, but won't run...

Brian

[daddysgirl]

Thanks for the clarification Brian.
You are correct of course, I mistyped. My brain is bus fried. I'm even dreaming about it now. But I do understand the governor with one exception that I'll look at tomorrow.

On a related topic, I ran across old posts where you all were pondering removing the shut down solenoid? I have the spin on filters and a fuel shut off valve.
If there is any chance the seals would cause a runaway, why would I want the air stopper? I understand there is more to it than just the solenoid...relay, etc..
Thoughts?

[Iceni John]

If you're needing more starter cables, the best price I've found for 4/0 welding cable is on eBay from acdcwireandsupply who's selling USA-made Excelene for less than $4 a foot.   For example, 50 feet of red and 50 feet of black is only (OK, I know it's still a lot) $360, with free shipping.   Northern Arizona Wind & Sun has tinned copper closed-end 4/0 lugs for well less than $2 each, not as pretty looking as others but they do the job just fine.   I've used the Excelene for most of my cabling so far  -  it has a slightly smaller OD than other brands, but the conductors are still the same total diameter as normal and it still has 600V insulation, so I'm not concerned about it looking slightly smaller.   Just use a good circumferential crimper if you're making high-current cables  - a cheapo hammer crimper isn't enough to make reliable "gas-tight" connections that effectively fuse the lug and cable together.

John

[brmax]

I have seen some places offer the option to install battery cable ends of all types during a purchase, sometimes made it handy to use this option before.

Also a few business that did this construction offered soldering, heat shrink and or sold these parts individually. I have not used but found the solder tablets neat!, at this point I still work through this stage.

Before I push sales much more I am curious and probably missed a post.  Anyway has there been available a meter to test at battery voltage while attempting to start.
With a follow-up and a couple long wires taped so testing a low volt through this circuit for a voltage drop reading possibly and comparing from the previous result may help.

I mean if there isn't green or white corrosion, or toasted black wire from heat that's to far up and un-repairable well then new wire should be considered. This problem can leach thru the wire but if not seen then consider the connectors. imo

Recalling the wonderful area and typical resources, there might be a marina shop around "if "required could be a top quality source for wiring. That type runs a bit more but some ends could be sourced in short order. This also may be an option for locating a local rebuilder for starters. Theres many a Detroits in boats for sure, goodluck!

Floyd

[luvrbus]

I have used solder slugs and the crimping method for years,I really think the fusion method is the best out there then use a good double or triple shrink tube the Harbor Freight shrink tubing is junk but beats nothing almost 

[chessie4905]

If the frame stud is removable, remove it and thoroughly clean it and surface it connects to. Add electrical contact paste to the connection surfaces.

[Oonrahnjay]

I have used solder slugs and the crimping method for years,I really think the fusion method is the best out there then use a good double or triple shrink tube the Harbor Freight shrink tubing is junk but beats nothing almost    

       Hey, Clifford, will you please describe the process that you use for this method?  I've been checking out different sites on them InnerWebs and there's a lot of c**p talked about what's the best -- and a lot of disagreement.  I'd like to hear what's worked for you.  Thanks,  BH

[luvrbus]

Bruce , I cut the cover back till I find cable with no corrosion,I hold the terminal in a vise heat the terminal while pushing the cable twisting a little as you go.
What I like the solder and flux are pre measured and the solder will not wick up into the cable plus they stand more vibration and are stronger than the old crimp style install the heat shrink and you are done.
If you screw up you can heat and remove the terminal and start over,they cost a little more than a crimp style but worth it to me and you don't have the slug and flux to deal with like on a slug that will wick up the cable JMO     

[Oonrahnjay]

Bruce , I cut the cover back till I find cable with no corrosion,I hold the terminal in a vise heat the terminal while pushing the cable twisting a little as you go.
What I like the solder and flux are pre measured and the solder will not wick up into the cable plus they stand more vibration and are stronger than the old crimp style install the heat shrink and you are done.
If you screw up you can heat and remove the terminal and start over,they cost a little more than a crimp style but worth it to me and you don't have the slug and flux to deal with like on a slug that will wick up the cable JMO     

      Yeah, that's the heart of what's been bugging me.  Am I right that the "fusion" terminals have pre-measured solder lining the bore of the terminal -- not a piece of solder in the bottom to be melted into a "puddle"?  I have thought a long time that (besides corrosion, of course), one of the biggest issues with terminals is the stress-raiser where either a crimp terminal meets the conductor strands or where a blob of solder that has wicked into the strands makes a solid lump (especially if it's run down the strands out of the barrel).  In either of these conditions, movement or vibration will bend and damage the strands and as they go -- one by one -- there's more and more stress on the unbroken strands. 
      I am also really leery of people who say "get it real hot, you can't get it too hot".  Certainly, if the joint and solder is not hot enough you'll get "cold joints", poor adhesion, and bad electrical connection but if it's overheated to the point that the solder is burnt and the strands overheated, you're going to start with a damaged joint that's only going to get worse. 
      I appreciate your help on this. 

[luvrbus]

Bruce, try one I think you be impressed with the fusion

[TomC]

I have 2-31 batteries for starting my 8V-71 (12v starter). If I need more, I can activate the jumper relay and tap into the 2-8D deep cycle batteries. I have started the bus this way when the starter batteries were dead.

[Jeff Willard]

One big problem with solder connecting is this. If they aren't perfect, (and are any of us THAT good and ANYTHING?) you get a resistance going. With the high amperage these batteries are capable of they will actually cause the solder to melt. Over time the connection will get worse and worse and eventually fail. I don't know this for a fact but, I've heard this is why only crimped connections are used in "life or death" installation like Inverters in Ambulances and aviation.
The thing about crimping is it needs to be done right.... with the right tool (that nobody has in their DIY garage) Done right with good, HEAVY shrink tubing and it will outlive you.
Do it right or do it over.... On the side of the road..... in a snow storm...... with a pair of plyers and can of WD40....... Ya'll be careful out there, ya' hear?

[Iceni John]

Exactly.   The purpose of crimping is to cold-weld the individual cable strands and the lug into one indivisible mass of copper by means of lots of pressure.   I've cut apart some of my crimps that were made with either my big FTZ 94284 crimper or my smaller hydraulic crimper, and in both cases the cable and lug had become one solid block of copper with absolutely no space between individual strands, hence the description "gas-tight".   What's important is to apply pressure evenly all around the lug  -  the FTZ makes 4-sided crimps, and the hydraulic makes hexagonal crimps.   Merely whacking the lug with a hammer-type "crimper" can never produce good "gas-tight" connections.   I agree with what you say about soldering  -  a high-current joint may get hot enough (such as if it's overloaded or poorly made) to begin to weaken a soldered connection, then it's all downhill from there until it eventually fails completely.   Unfortunately there's no way to tell what's happening inside a lug after the heatshrink is applied, but I feel my lugs to check for heat under load  -  so far I've not felt any getting even slightly warm under full load.

I also use my little hydraulic crimper to make solid ends for coarse-stranded wire, such as my main PV feed cables into my charge controllers that have set screws to secure the cables.   I use small copper plumbing connectors and crimp them onto the cable, and after progressively squeezing them smaller and smaller I end up with a hexagonal solid-copper tongue that can be tightly clamped under the set screws without any risk of wire strands splaying out, and as the screw is tightened the hex ends don't deform enough to jam into the opening, as would happen if they were circular.

John   

[luvrbus]

Strange the electric fork lifts don't use the crimp terminals on the battery I just check my 36v Hyster 3000 # they are solder terminals.I have a hydraulic hose crimper I use on my crimp terminals it does a lot better job than my 12 ton hand held crimper does IMO.

I still like the fusion method it's as strong as the lead battery terminal JMO 

[daddysgirl]

UPDATE:

There is a place in Petersburg called Battery Barn of Virginia. They have every type of battery ever made. I got the group 31 (for the house side) Made in America, BTW for 80.00 each.
They also have every type of wire ever made. I got all new cables (2/0 and 4/0 welding cable...they explained the difference between the uses for flexible v. rigid ) for the 8D set up; the cable from the terminal in the rear to the starter; the ground ground; four feet of extra for whatever, and they soldered and sealed every end I needed. I got extra heat shrink and a few smaller things ALL for a grand total of $325.00. They also sell new and rebuilt starters and alternators. I can get a beautiful reman starter for 225.00.

Now, I get to see if I'm going to need that new starter...Wish me luck