Very small generator - am I thinking right?

[Jon]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if we wanted to rough it or sacrifice comfort we would go undersize on everything. But we don't.

The object of a bus, apart from the safety aspect is to be able to have a second home on wheels with all of the comforts of home. We want to be cool in the summer, warm in the winter, and have as many creature comforts as we can fit. And to keep them working requires energy, lots of it.

Our generator is 20KW and because of its size we can run our 4 AC units, run the refrigerator, keep our water hot, have plenty of lights, charge our batteries and cook steaks on the electric grille. All at once and for as long as we have fuel, which we burn at a little less than 1/2 gallon per hour.

1100 watts is not enough.

If your object is to use as little energy, especially fossil fuels, as possible you would not drive a bus, none of which are fuel efficient.

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Jon,

I think the intent of the thread is a well known debate to purchase a small genset to only charge up the batteries, not to run the frig or A/C units or the H2O heater.  Many people carry a second smaller genset around and Honda is the most common one out there because of its low db level.

I have thought of doing this several times myself for the same reason, but I am now leaning towards solar panels because I primary camp where the sunshine's and like a very quiet camping experience.

I have been known to carry a small drum set to put out on my picnic table to keep other RV's from camping too close to me.  That is how quiet I like it. I can't play them but bought them at a garage sale really cheap and they tend to keep the area clear around my bus.

Gary

[Jon]

I am sympathetic to that need, but with the current inverter technology and the fact the new inverters can also perform an auto-start function for the generator, which depending on the battery bank size can run only as necessary, often an hour or so to fully charge the batteries while allowing the people using the coach to not have to sacrifice any comfort.

When i "dry camp" I turn the generator on right away and turn it off for quiet hour or when I am ready to hit the road. At the rate I am going I project I will wear it out in about 50 years.

[Iceni John]

Four big grid-tie solar panels (the cheapest way to buy PV, still well under $1/watt) can produce close to 1000 watts actual power.   Along with a suitable charge controller, you will have automatic battery charging all day long and every day the sun shines, which for many folk is almost every day.   Running costs are ZERO, maintenance and upkeep is washing them clean of dust and bird poo every month or so, reliability is 100%, noise is ZERO, pollution is ZERO, and operational lifetime is decades at least.   Heck, they may be the most reliable thing on the whole bus!

Generators aren't the only way to cultivate and grow your electrons, especially if you don't need many of them.

The many Chinese clones of the small Hondas are variable in quality from so-so to worthless crap  -  caveat emptor!

John

[DoubleEagle]

What about the quality of the Chinese solar panels, are they in the same state? What brands of panels are dependable? 

[Lin]

I like the idea of adding a solar panel or two to top off the batteries, but the downside is needing to park in the sun.  If we do that we would need to run the generator for AC is this area.

[Iceni John]

What about the quality of the Chinese solar panels, are they in the same state? What brands of panels are dependable?  

Chinese-made panels have proven to be good quality, probably as good as panels from anywhere else.   However, one can sometimes find USA-made panels for the same price.   I got Grade B (i.e with cosmetic blemishes such as slightly different-colored cells, but they're still UL-listed) Sharp panels made in USA for about the same price as panels made in the Socialist Workers' Paradise  -  I think that's a good deal.   For use on vehicles, the strength of the frames is important, and the Sharps are slightly better than average in that regard.

Panels now are pretty much a generic commodity item, so most folk choose them by price alone.   A few brands use thicker 4mm glass instead of the more common 3.2mm glass, but that doesn't necessarily translate to longer-lasting or more durable, just heavier.   It's still a good idea nevertheless to mount each panel in a support frame to take the load off the panel's own frame and glass.

Just don't buy those flexible panels  - they deteriorate very quickly.   Besides, you should have an air gap under panels to prevent heat buildup, and you can't do that if they're stuck to the roof!

John

[chessie4905]

I saw a price of $360 per panel times 8= close to $3000? Plus charge controller $$$? That's a good deal of money for a lot of us for battery charging.. Harbor Freight have some that are on sale frequently for some that wish to gain some initial experience.
Btw, does a controller shut off the panels when the batteries are fully charged?

[bevans6]

Your inverter will either be charging or inverting, not both at once.  1100 watts (that is probably peak, it might be more like 800 watts continuous if it is named like the Hondas and Yamaha's) will be around 9 amps at 120 volts, so it should run a very decent charger, at least 30 or 45 amps, which should deal with your batteries fairly quickly (unless you have a fully discharged monster house bank or such like that).  In other words, a great choice to run a battery charger and some other small 120 volt things.

[Beesme]

We just bought a generac q2000 worlds quietest ! We bought it for the times we can't run the kabota because of noise . We bought it couple months ago and it works awesome . 700$ at lowes we also bought it for batteries . We do have a couple of solar panels thinking they would charge batts but not enough yet . We bought the 2000 q after comparing Honda Yamaha and generac. The generac q has been out less than a year . It tells how long it will run on the fuel and what I'm drawing for current really nice generator for the $

[Oonrahnjay]

We just bought a generac q2000 worlds quietest ! We bought it for the times we can't run the kabota because of noise . We bought it couple months ago and it works awesome . .. 

      I've been looking at that Generac; a number of reviews says it is indeed very quiet and a fuel sipper, the down side is that a few complain about reliability and hard starting but people complaining sort of rises to the top like foam on beer -- it's about the first thing you see but it's not always the real story. 
      I have not seen any comparisons of the Generac and a similarly sized Honda using a sound meter to compare noise levels at equivalent loads.  The new small generators use "Eco" technology to drop the rpms for idle and low loads and reduce noise -- that's nice but when you put a load on them (and the load is what we buy them for) they rev up and the sound output increases.  The tests I've seen say that the Honda, Yamaha, and Generac put out power that's as clean and up-to-spec as household current and that can be important if you're depending on it to run electronic equipment and electronically-controlled devices.
     Every test and review I've seen raves about the reliability and power output of the Honda (and to a very similar extent the similar Yamaha) generators in the 1600 - 3000 watt size, but a little more real world experience with the Generac (and some comparative data on sound levels), it's looking like a good choice to me.  And yeah, the price point is looking great, too!

[DoubleEagle]

This is a very useful thread. I am getting the opinion that a small quiet generator for charging batteries to give the big generator a break is most cost effective, depending on the time frame. Decent solar panels still cost too much in comparison. They might save money in the long term, but they need lots of mounting brackets that need to be screwed or riveted down causing the potential for leaks, and I wonder how they would do in a hail storm, or react to branches catching on them. They might be more practical out west for dry camping, but when it is hot you might still be running the main generator to keep cool. Maybe some cheap fake solar panels on the roof would keep the environmentalists at bay, or a clever custom paint job, and then run the small stealth generator down below.

[thomasinnv]

I had the same generac for a few weeks and took it back and got a honda 2000. The generac was good on fuel and quiet. It was hard to start when warm, had trouble getting it started after a refuel. It has a hard time starting the swamp cooler (at the off grid house, not in the bus lol), whereas the honda fires it up every time. It is almost as quiet as the honda when the eco throttle is on and the load is low, but noticeably noisier under load. Still pretty quiet though.

[thomasinnv]

My honda will run about 5 hours on a gallon of fuel when charging batteries in bulk mode. The big noisemaker will run about 2.5 hours on a gallon of fuel when just charging batteries. The big one does it in about half the time as the honda because of the output limitations of the honda (2000 watt honda is actually only 1600 watt continuous). So fuel wise its close to a wash either way, but with the big genny I only have to listen to the noise half as long. I used to use the honda for charging batteries on cloudy days, but its so much easier to just push a button and never even have to go outside, especially if its raining or cold.

[luvrbus]

The down side to all the small generators like the Honda and others if you don't take care of the crappy fuel we get now the tanks rust through and the CARB compliance fuel system you can buy another generator for the price of repairs.
I have saw bills at our local Honda dealer ( a friend)for over $500.00 for repairs caused by fuel on the little things and the parts are big $$$,Honda has minimum parts order my friend has to order at least $150.00 worth of parts each order or they will not send them