Buying a bus today: any input/advice?

[aaronjweiss]

Hello!

I'm on a road trip from Philadelphia with my brother and his 6-year old son, looking at buses with hopes of buying one to convert for my band. We want something solid and spacious and practical that will get us from one show to the next, w/ parts available all around the country (we drive coast to coast several times a year), always on a tight schedule). We left hoping to find a solid 102" wide MCI with automatic trans. & prefer w/ fluted SS sides, hoping to spend $10-15K (if anyone knows other coaches that fit this description, please let me know!).

Today we stopped at Sawyer's Bus Sales in Virginia, & Howard pulled this one over the pit so we could look it over:

https://www.sawyersbussales.com/1990-mci-102c3--bus---444.html

The 6V-92 engine started right up, sounded nice, didn't smoke, oil looked/smelled good (some oil was caked around the bottom of the engine, but I beginning to suspect this all but inevitable?), no blow-by from the fill tube, new brakes, good tires, transmission shifted well, and most importantly (to me), the body was extremely clean, i.e., no rust.

I was happy with every aspect of the coach, EXCEPT that it was a bit sluggish on the uphill of the highway onramp (compared to my previous two MCIs), and has less overall power than the 102-C3 I currently own (about which I posted recently b/c of its substantial rust issues. This rusty bus of mine also has a 6v92 that, despite its power, leaks more, smokes quite a bit, and blows air out the fill tube).

At the basic level, I'm hoping for some insight into what gives one bus w/ same engine model more power than another? How much is related to choice of injectors? And how difficult to swap these out on this engine? How much related to other easily remedied factors (e.g., dirty fuel filter, air filter). As you can probably tell, I know basically nothing about this topic, and since I'm seriously considering buying a coach tomorrow, it's high time I learn.

In about 10 hours we go visit Goodson Bus, primarily to look at this 102-A3:
http://www.goodsonbussales.com/85mci-ms-851.htm

and MAYBE this Prevost, maybe primarily to gawk & maybe learn more about them:
http://www.goodsonbussales.com/94prevost-ps-942.htm

In any case we're not planning to buy a bus before having it inspected by a 3rd party mechanic. But does anyone have advice or tips for my search, e.g., things I should be looking for or asking about that I haven't already mentioned?

Last time I posted to this forum asking for advice if was AFTER purchasing; I'm determined to keep the horse before the cart this time!

---many thanks, Aaron W.

[scanzel]

My suggestion is to find something with a series 60 or an 8V92, more torque and horse power available. I have a Prevost like pictured but they are a real pain trying to cover or frame in the curved windows. I purchased mine out west it came from California so no east coast salt exposure. Trying finding something that may have spent it's life way down south such as Florida. 6V92 is ok but you don't want to start spending money on trying to repower a 20 plus year old coach. It can eat up money real fast. Before my Prevost I looked at a MCI 102A3 in Maine and even though it had a brand new rebuilt silver 8V92/ with 740 Allison after looking at it in the bus companies pit I decided not to bid on it salt corrosion was already doing it's thing. Choose wisely or pay the price latter. Good Luck !

[TomC]

Even though MTU (parent company of Detroit Diesel) is still making the 6V-53TI, 8V-71TA, 8v-92TA for military, it is getting very hard to find decent mechanics to work on them. I HIGHLY recommend you pay the extra for a bus with a Series 60 in it. Very reliable, not as hard to cool as a 8V-92TA (hardest to cool engine). Plus with your band bus, it will get 1-2mpg better fuel mileage, won't burn oil, will be nice and quiet with great power-you'll recoup the extra cost of the Series 60 in just a few months.
The E model MCI would be my choice. Good Luck, TomC

[DoubleEagle]

Even though I love 2 cycles, I agree that a series 60 would be a good choice since you are putting on serious miles for business. The chances of getting service where ever you go are much greater, and it is a dependable engine with quiet power. If two cycles are not something you grew up with, you can probably adjust to a 60 just fine, but if you really love that sound, it will be hard.

[luvrbus]

Don't pass a C up those can have a Cummins or Cat engine but looking at a C go for the rear mounted 1 radiator not the side mounted 2 radiator system and there are some 40 ft model D's out there also with series 60.The D will give you best ride in the MCI line but check for rust from the drive axle back that is the problem spot with rust issues on a D.If you want a 96 inch wide Jim Michaud has a nice 1983 10S Eagle listed on his site Busesonline Jim says it is solid and he knows Eagles it has 320,000 original miles     

[chessie4905]

It could be very well sluggish if it has smaller injectors than yours.

[eagle19952]

have you ever driven an Eagle ? you (at the least) owe it to yourself to do so

[DoubleEagle]

have you ever driven an Eagle ? you (at the least) owe it to yourself to do so

There are even some Eagles with Series 60's in them already converted out there. The ride quality is different, but since you are familiar with MCI's already, it would be practical to stick with what you know. But, you might always wonder, what does a Eagle ride like? Velvet. 

[aaronjweiss]

Thanks everyone for the input and advice! We looked at a few buses with the 60 series engine, but they were all out of our price range, with one exception, and it was in a rust-bucket (have already learned that lesson the hard way). Two-stroke was all I could afford (and I have to admit, I'm intimidated by all the additional wiring, sensors, etc. of newer engines. I'm afraid of what will happen when all that starts to age--we've always been able to hobble along w/ all mechanical and some of our guys didn't want to deviate from the familiar).  We did see some Eagles, maybe the prettiest buses in my opinion, but here again, so unfamiliar to me...

We ended up sticking with our tried and true MCI, going with the 1990 102c3 6V-92 from Sawyer's. Good experience with the Sawyer family. Drove the bus home today through the mountains, approx. 450 miles to Philadelphia. Oil pressure reading seemed low to me, just under 25psi at idle, just over 50psi on the highway. My old 8v-71 gauge showed a bit higher than this. Is this cause for concern? What is optimal?

Also, the bus has all 315R/80 22.5 tires, some need replacing. I'm thinking of taking some 12R22.5's from my other bus to use for this, if they're sufficient? Is there any problem w/ running different axles w/ diff. sizes, e.g., 315/80R 22.5 for steer tires, 12R22.5 on drive & tag axles? (bus will be loaded w/ bunks, couches, about 10 guys and luggage bays full of musical gear). And does anyone know much about the fuel economy implications of diff. sizes (or treads) on different axles?

So grateful to have found this forum, thank you again! --Aaron

ps. Tomorrow we start tearing out the seats, planning to take pictures every step of the conversion...

[TomC]

If you are using the bus for commercial purposes (band bus is commercial), you MUST stay with the tires that are on the weight serial plate on the bus. Even though weight wise, a 12R-22.5 might work, it is still considered to be a smaller, less weight carrying tire. The 12R will carry around 14,300lbs. The 16ply 315 will carry 16,000lbs, 18ply will carry 18,000lbs, 20 ply will carry 20,000lbs on the steer axle. Good Luck, TomC

[bigred]

Are you sure the bus is taking off in first gear instead of second? My 8v92ta is also sluggish on take off and I really believe that it is taking off in second gear. According to the to the info I have ,it says the bus "may take off in first or second gear".That is the only mention and it does not elaborate on what would make it take off in second vs first.Have had the codes checked and there are none stored.Funny thing is ,you can hit the accelerator with it in reverse and it will jump out from under you!!   

[luvrbus]

The 12R was the factory installed tire on a "C" 12R's was factory installed on the 45 ft DL also so the 12R's will carry the load. I went to 315's on my DL with 9 inch wide Alcoa wheels why lol I have no idea

[sledhead]

when I got mine they had 315 80 r 22.5 on all but the steers . I did replace the steer with the 315s but had to go back to the 12 rs or get a front end alignment 
my oil gauge is about the same 25 lbs on idle and 50-60 lbs at cruise .  if the oil is at the full mark  the gauge goes up a bit 

dave   

[Scott & Heather]

I have 24.5 11rs all around on my 102C3 and love them


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[lvmci]

I have 12R22.5s on my 102C3, lvmci...