Mobile mechanic in coastal Virginia?

[bigred]

Sean:Don't mean to but in,but I would Go easy on the either!! In the dead of winter ,it only takes a short squirt to get mine going .After putting two or three cans of either ,I'm surprised that the piston's ain't jumped out and swapped holes.I had a deal like this happen to me one time with a Cummins engine and it turned out to be the transfer pump.

[Sean]

Steve, this is a DDEC-IV. I suppose it could be the fuse that powers the injector solenoids... I have no idea where that is but I will hunt for it. I would have thought that would throw a code, though... the ECM is running because I have a Silverleaf VMS on the dash that reads it and it's getting data. No faults at all.

Cliff, the Davco does not appear to be cracked and I have now triple-checked the O-rings. Also, would't it at least catch a little before the air became a problem if that was the case? It does not sound like it's firing at all.

Scott, I am in the middle of nowhere. I don't have a garden sprayer or access to a selection of fittings to connect it, one of the reasons I was looking for a mechanic with a truck. Just getting a new filter for the Davco took three hours, and I was lucky the closest Napa had it in stock.

Bigred -- I don't use ether as a rule; this was 100% the mechanic who came out to help. He was very good at modulating the spray to keep the rpm down. I'm wondering myself if it's the lift pump. I'm seeing fuel flowing from the secondary, but it does not seem all that vigorous; I have no basis for comparison, though.

I'm going to keep hunting for an air leak this morning as soon as I've made a few more calls. Thanks everyone.

-Sean

[luvrbus]

If you have a wrench and some fuel you could break the connection loose on the Davco where it ties into fuel pump side and trying filling the line and turning it over to check and see if the pump is working 

[Dave5Cs]

Sean did you check the oil for any diesel in it? If it is disappearing and no signs of leaks anywhere it might be a leaky injector or o rings in the head?
Next try putting a rag on your tank opening with an air hose in the tank opening giving it about 8 to 10 lbs while someone is trying to start it and see if it stays running.
Dave5Cs

[Sean]

So I am now thinking it is the transfer pump.

I checked all ECM circuit breakers and I have good power all around.

When I look at the fuel delivery pressure reading on the VMS display while cranking, it's reading zero.

I see fuel come out at the secondary when I crank, but it's possible that it's just not enough pressure for the ECM to run the injectors.

If I had a way to put 20psi or so of fuel to the inlet side of the secondary I could confirm this. My last test involved filling the bowl on the Davco and leaving the upper cap loose while I cranked. There's enough fuel in that bowl to get the engine running and yet it is not firing. I see the fuel level in the bowl lowering, but very slowly; the bowl holds maybe a quart, and in perhaps 20 seconds of cranking about half of that has disappeared, probably right back to the tank via the return.

BTW, I have no way to put air pressure to the tank -- too many openings. But, really, this problem can not be between the tank and the Davco -- there's already enough fuel sitting in that Davco to run the engine. If there was an obstruction or an air leak between the Davco and the tank, it should run fine until the Davco empties, and then and only then should it quit. That's not what's happening here.

Anyone have a line on a rebuilt fuel pump for an 8V92?

-Sean

[gumpy]

Sounds like your fuel pump is air locked. If you haven't pressurized the fuel through the pump, you probably haven't got the air out of it.

This is why we install electric pumps in our systems to re-prime when we make a mistake and run out of fuel.

[Scott & Heather]

I'm hunching on the fuel pump or an airlock like Craig mentioned. I really wish he could get a garden sprayer hose to slide over the fuel filter nipple because that would tell the story. I've been there and I feel like maybe he still hasn't built prime....


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[Dave5Cs]

I agree with Craig and Scott. Air in the line and the fuel just hasn't got far enough up the line to fire and stay running. Air will hold it back if its in front of it but also push it through if its behind it. Home Depot will sell you a garden sprayer for cheap and get it filled with a gallon of diesel take end off hose and shove it on the nipply at the filter and let her rip.
Dave

[eagle19952]

just a bit of info first ether does not kill detroit's  if it did there would be none left in the oilfields. i have seen cans of it empty laying around when finally the operator calls for a mechanic...

an electric fuel pump can deliver enough fuel to run a detroit under no load.
but possibly not under full load.

were i you, i would temporarily bypass the filter and try even if i had to put a 5 gallon bucket and a syphoning hose with a fitting directly into the transfer pump.. put the bucket on a ladder...

[robertglines1]

need a minimum of 11.6 volts to ddec for it to work. Many have had one bad batt and it was one to feed ddec. =engine will crank but not fire because ddec shuts down at 11.6V...Been there.  Bob

[Scott & Heather]

Yeah I second the ether comment. I've used it many times for years...if you're careful you're not blowing anything up


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[Sean]

Update:

I got it running on the very first crank by pressurizing the secondary with a garden sprayer. I removed the inlet fitting that comes from the pump by way of the ECM.

I have a fuel pump coming overnight from Western Branch Diesel in Portsmouth. If I don't need it I can send it back.

One it was running I got a lot of fuel back out the delivery hose from the ECM. So it would seem that it flows plenty of fuel but not enough pressure to run the injectors.

Does this still sound like an air lock on the transfer pump? Or does it sound like the pump seals dried out while it's been sitting?

-Sean

[eagle19952]

possible, but not likely. again there have been countless Detroits mothballed with nothing but slam the door, and a tin can over the exhaust pipe/or wire closed the rain cap... and walk away in the construction industry, waiting on a future contract.
priming the fuel and oil (holding the governor in the no fuel for 30 seconds x's 3) and we used a 40v 200amp DC Lincoln welder for jumpers (not recommended for DDEC often at 30 below zero....

fuel and air...
i would run it on the garden sprayer for 3-5 minutes at least and try again with out it and the port used sealed.... if it does not start...it's sucking air down stream.. or the stand pipe fell off. or... someone stole your diesel... or

[Sean]

Runs on the garden sprayer; won't start without it.

Won't run on whatever fuel is in the Davco. That's just the same as bypassing the entire tank/supply line and running the suction line into a bucket.

I connected everything back up and put the garden sprayer into the priming port; it starts and runs but quits as soon as the two-gallon sprayer is empty, which is less than a minute.

When I had the sprayer on the inlet fitting and the line from the ECM loose, a gallon out of the sprayer resulted in only maybe a quart coming out of the supply. So the fuel system wants a gallon but is only getting a quart from the transfer pump....

A new pump will be in my hands tomorrow around noonish. I'm thinking my next step is to replace the pump, unless someone has a different suggestion.

As far as I can tell I have to drain the coolant and remove the crossover pipe to get the pump out, unless someone has a trick. What else do I need to know about the pump replacement? It looks like it comes off with three bolts and it's a square drive. Anything else?

-Sean

[robertglines1]

Had same thing many years ago with transfer pump My memory is getting bad but think I loosened clamps and rotated it enough to fit in. If not there might be a plug on the crossover that you can drain down to the level required to change. Clifford has changed many more than me hopefully he will chime in. Mine would suck out of a 5gal can but didn't have enough suction to pull from tank. Your return line flows all unneeded fuel back to tank so you can only use part of supply. Think you got it! Good luck in your future adventures and thanks for your past participation on this forum.  Bob