New Member Huntsville TX - Looking at a GMC 4905A and a MCI 102A3

[ScharpeStGuy]

Hello All, thank you to the moderators for hosting this site and all those with experience under your belt willing to help and share you knowledge.

First off my name is Fraser and my Wife and I are seeking a bus conversion in which to take our three children 7,5,2 around the USA and perhaps Canada. We feel it is important that the kids get to see all the parks and wonders to be seen and at this point with three children and the cost of traveling (Air/Hotels or AirBNB/Rental Van or SUV) we feel the bus may be the best option.  We are not interested in a fifth wheel, tow behind, or other Sticks And Staples rig. Our trips would most likely all be under two weeks in length so we would not be full timing.

I have found two buses with bunk beds and would gratefully seek your input/wisdom/guidance.

1. First bus is a 1990 MCI 102A3 with an asking price of $30,000 that was purchased by the current owner in 2005 and the conversion was finished (Virginia Coach) in 2007 at which time they (family of four/Two Bunks Beds) used it full time for approx six years. I think the owner may actually be a member on here or was.



Link: https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html

I paid Sawyers to perform an inspection and they found a few engine leaks (at Turbo Intake, at Fan Drive Gear Box, at 3 lb Oil Pressure Sender), transmission hose on right top leaking at fitting, the Speedometer, Oil Pressure, Temperature Gauges don't work, Not Gen tell tale alert flickers, and the transmission shift rough during the ten mile drive (they say it's not unusual for this type transmission until fluid gets warmer it was only 50 degrees, might get better then again it might not). This bus has bubbling (Corrosion/Rust??) occurring at the rear of the coach almost at the end of the pinstripe on both side panels which are supposedly galvalume (galvanized/ aluminum).

2. Second bus is a 1977 GMC 4905A with a supposedly firm price of $21,000 that was purchased and converted by the current owner in 1995-1997 and it has three bunk beds. Per the owner the bus needs two front tires, front brake chamber and air hoses (he just recently replaced the rear hoses and Brake Chamber), needs two starting batteries and has a bit of surface rust on rear engine hatch. When he purchased bus it had rust up front on the D windows and some other areas that he fixed and then Zinc Chromated.



Link: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html


I am torn between the two buses, the MCI is in Virginia and the GMC in Phoenix AZ. I like the fact that the MCI is more updated however I really like the classic lines of the GMC, the wood work, bunk beds, etc... and I don't think it would take all the much to get it updated with new seating up front except for the two seats behind the driver.

Thoughts that you all could share? I have spoken to both owners and have lots of pictures of each bus and the MCI has some video's on youtube under Sawyers Bus Sales which should be easy to find including a drive in it. I will be able to take care of most of the maintenance myself (can't be any harder then my 2005 Mercedes Diesel?) on each bus.

Thank you everyone

[jackhanow]

I have a 102a2 that I got cheap enough but every time I look a little closer at something I find more things that need attention. If it has rust at the rear baggage bulkhead, of the 102, just stay away. Because that means the rust is heavy in the forward compartments and the salt has gotten into everything. When I repaired my rear bulk head. I literally dug salt out by the pound. Look at the pics at mc9/102.com. The ones where they show the rust I. The lower compartments. If the screws at the hinges are rusty. Stay away. This bus runs great and drives awesome. But it's not, nor was it ever gonna be a long term bus, I just bought it for the modern bus thing like you are thinking. Now that I know what I'm looking for long term, I'm gonna go more modern than this. As for the older bus, unless you are into doing an apprenticeship on 2 strokes and chassis from some of the pros here for 4-10 years, you'll be looking that long for help keeping it on the road.

[ScharpeStGuy]

Jack, the GMC 4905a is that bad? From what I have read online owners seem to think they are pretty reliable and well built. The 102 has something occurring at the rear of the bus under the side windows and just after the point in the stripe. I will check out the website you referenced which I think is: http://mci102.com/Buying_a_MCI_Bus.htm

Thank you Jack

[lvmci]

Hi Fraser, keep looking, southwest buses are best bet for finding a minumum rust bus, but just  because it's  in the SW, doesnt mean it's  from the SW. So always check for rust, the stainless steel modern buses have less places they can rust. On MCIs check around the radiators, if its a split radiator system, the sub chassis structure for rust, as the salt air is sucked in thru there and rusts that structure. Take a big screw driver, if you can push it thru metal, walk away. Surface rust and rust that permeated the steel are different. Others will mention more, like spare tire bay, around windows if you can check them, rivets with bubbles under the paint, rusted mufflers are just some of the simple rust issues to check that would tell you to walk away from a particular bus, lvmci...

[buswarrior]

Don't discount bubbling paint, poor surface preparation before the paint can cause that, with no underlying cancer issues.

You gotta know what you're looking at!

Both owners are proud of their coaches, at those prices, properly working isn't unreasonable?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[ScharpeStGuy]

lvmci, buswarrior, Jack,

From reading your responses I am sensing that I could find a better bus / deal if I keep my eyes open? Just to confirm did you look at the pictures of each bus on the links as both of them have been converted already. Other then some repairs it would appear that each is usable almost immediately. It just seems that at those prices $30,000/$21,000 the buyer would be getting a lot of bus for the money. Heck you can barely purchase a KIA for $21,000 anymore.

Thanks and please keep the replies, insight, and thoughts coming if you are so willing.

[luvrbus]

Check C/L for Parker and Lake Havasu Az Bill has a 4104 and 4905 for sale his 4905 is a better coach for less money than the one in Laveen and has 2 roof tops with a diesel generator

[ScharpeStGuy]

Luvrbus,

Found the posting: http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5478894686.html

I like the new engine/transmission however the interior needs to have room for at least three bunks which has me looking at the two I posted previously. Any recommendations for someone who can reasonably convert Bill's 4905 into a bedroom (queen) with three bunks while retaining the kitchen?

You reference Laveen AZ so could I take it that you know the bus I posted about? The owner said he has it parked at a Dairy about 30 miles from his house in Mesa so Laveen would make sense. If you know the bus could you tell me more about it and what you thought? I really like the two seats mounted behind the drivers seat, I have not seen this on another bus before but great for kids.

Thanks

[bevans6]

Prices for buses bear almost no relationship to the value of the bus, nor the costs associated with building them, nor the costs associated with maintaining them or repairing them.  Even at $30K, the price of the bus isn't the point - it could be free if it costs another $30 within a year (new engine, anyone?) and the bus cost someone a half a million at some point in the first place.  Selling a bus that can't pass a DOT inspection (the MCI and it's faulty ground in the instrument panel?) makes it a gamble, a 40 year old GM where the manufacturer has been out of the game for decades equally a gamble.  A 270 hp 8v71 NA in a 40 foot bus with a three speed auto is a recipe for not getting anywhere very quickly, which is not always a problem.  I wouldn't focus much on the asking price, but on what you think it will cost over the next three years.  And that is always a gamble.

My gut would make the MCI the better choice - engine, trans, and rust willing.

[ScharpeStGuy]

Bevan, the 4905 I posted has a 4 speed manual not an auto. I guess unless you are purchasing from a recognized guru or new with a warranty any bus is going to be somewhat a roll of the dice. Do you think a bus is the wrong route to go for my family? Alternatives?

Thanks

[lvmci]

hi Fraser, call B&B Coach in LV, they advertise here, there is a coach with a 8V92, I think its a 96A, no generator, it was stolen, very nice interior, a cross between a entertainer  and a motorhome, that I was interested in awhile back, that is for sale now, for about the price of what your looking at, lvmci...

[ScharpeStGuy]

lvmci, appears www.bbcoach.com is down at the moment. I will call them tomorrow and check on that bus, thank you for the referral.

[DoubleEagle]

I agree that you should look further, there are many buses for sale. You have not mentioned whether you have any experience driving a bus, if you do not, driving a four speed manual might not be for you. Plus, the resale value of a coach with an automatic (preferably a Allison) will be greater and make the coach more marketable. MCI's and Prevost's are still in business, therefore parts will be easier to get. The MCI and the GM that you are looking at have very usable interiors, but the body and mechanical condition need to be checked very carefully. If you do not have mechanical skills, you will need to be able to have good financial reserves to pay someone who does. There are many things that can go wrong with a coach, I would recommend buying one from a individual that has had the coach for years and knows all of its' faults and pluses. A dealer is out to make a profit, and is not likely to know the coach well. Knowing the repair history of the bus is worth a lot.

[ScharpeStGuy]

DoubleEagle,

No experience driving a bus but plenty riding in one. I have driven almost everything else (cars, trucks, tractors, boats) and in central America, Europe including Rome, etc... I do drive manual transmissions. I agree the auto will have a much wider market and resale value then a manual transmission bus. My mechanical skills are pretty strong, I do all my own work on personal vehicles such as engine/suspension/etc...

The owner of the GMC has owned it since 1995 and seems to know all it's faults. On the other hand the MCI owner seems to have less mechanical skills and more pocket assets.

So the GMC is not recommended then by anyone on here? Luvrbus I get the sense that you may know this particular GMC as you knew the location of it in Laveen, is this true? Is it in bad shape or??? Thanks everyone.

[jackhanow]

Electrical and 2 stroke bag of tricks are the 2 main things with older buses even if rust free. I have a 50 and a 30 year old bus. The 50 year old is pretty rust free but some of the electrical needs tending. The 30 year old is mostly sound electrically but has corrosion every where inside of it. 2 strokes are way different and each version and style has it own bag of tricks. A lot of the older buses are owned and fixed by people that came of age when they were new and top shelf. The number of people that can fix them is getting smaller all the time. That's why I say more modern motor. But not too modern. Series 50 or 60 and cummins m11. I'm 45 and in 20 years people will say your crazy if you say the phrase 2 stroke diesel. Oh I'm sorry, got called that 5 years ago already. My how time flys. I have a lot of skills and also drove trucks in Europe for 4 years. But if you can drive a 40-45 foot bus to try first, I would. I bought my mc5 had a cast on my left leg.  Had old tires and I mean old and drove it from silver city New Mexico to Wyoming. It's been a lot more fun si cr that trip. Good luck hunting.