Electrical questions

[Ace]

I posted this same set of questions on the BNO board and couldn't lure any electrical guru's out of hiding so I thought I would try to lure some out here.

As you know, I have been having a building/workshop built and along with that a few problems but nothing I can't take care of or handle! My next dilemma is putting electric IN the building. To start with there is a small breaker box mounted on the outside of the building that has ONE breaker (had others but were removed when we tore the old building down) that controls the water well pump and that is all! I want to install a larger breaker box on the interior of the building at the same location as the outside box and eliminate that box altogether. The outside box has TWO PVC pipes coming into it. One white that is the feed from the house and one GRAY that is buried in the footer to feed the well pump. I "THINK" I can elbow those two pipes and come thru the concrete block wall then UP the inside wall to the NEW larger box. Am I correct? OK if so, is there a limit on the placement of the interior box, such as height? Only thing I could find was that the breakers couldn't be more than 6'7" from floor, IF I read it right! I will be using metal conduit from the NEW box to feed everything else IN the building such as outlets and lights! Is THIS correct? Speaking of outlets! Do ALL the outlets have to be a certain distance from each other AND do they ALL have to be GFI outlets? Also do the outlets around the block wall have to be a certain height from the floor?
Another question has risen since my original post and that is, since this is a bare block (painted inside) building/shop, does the conduit have to be metal with metal boxes or can it be the flexible type conduit with plastic boxes?

These electrical codes are really confusing!

Thanks!

Ace

[frank-id]

The most important requirement is that the new electrical has large enough conductors to supply the intended load.  Deciding on a subpanel in requard to panel space and total ampacity are very important.  In most electrical decisions, big is better.  Of importance also is a good electrical equipment maker.  My favorite is Square D, as they are quality and have a very long history making equipment.  Depending on the total panel load, a good choise would 18-24 spaces full size and 200 amps at 240 volt.  It would only be required to make a single hole thru the block wall for AC power.  The hole size should be about 2.5 inches for a 2 inch conduit.  The center of the panel will be good at 66 inches from the floor.  The two conduit on the outside can be connected into a junction box then connected thru the wall.  All boxes and fittings should be rain tite rated.  The supply conductors should be at least number 1 thhn or mtw.  Depending on the total amp load and the distance to power supply, wire size may need to be increased.  Most electrical codes require and surfrace mount pvc conduit be protected or only  metalic conduit used.  Making a plan is very important.
It is common to space handy recepticles about 10-12 feet horizon and 48 inches from floor.  Depending on intended load, 6-8 outlets per circuit.  Making combination circuits with outlets and lites is frowned upon.  Some load considerations are 3-4 120volt outletsw at 20 amp, 2 circuits for lites, air compressor, welder, and etc.   Make a list and think about addition machinery and growth.  After mounting a panel, hte circuits need to be in emt couduit.  A plan is required.  I'm done.        Contractor for 32 years.    Frank

[Tony LEE]

Wouldn't it be safer to get a licensed contractor to do the work?

Advising someone on how to carry out an electrical job on a "paint by the numbers" basis is a bit risky, especially when it is hard to determine the level of knowledge and skills of the amateur doing the work.

Ace, you are asking too many questions about very basic components and that would probably explain the apparent lack of response on the other board. Maybe electrics is not quite as complicated as brain surgery but the effect of a mistake can be worse - haven't heard of a brain surgeon being killed by an own mistake, but it happens all the time to those doing electrical work. Still, natural selection I guess and it does eventually reduce the risk to innocent people.

[Hartley]

Not that this helps.... If there is wire in "white pvc" it is not legal or safe.

Grey PVC rated electrical conduit is the minimum or metallic. Both require a ground bond to be in the pipe with the
hot circuits.

Ace,
        You mentioned a feed for a well pump. Chances are that the wiring is not heavy enough to handle any loads that
you might add in the shop or create problems later even if you could hack somthing together. Your homeowners Insurance
company will want an inspection and they will decline to insure if anything looks funky or not to accepted codes.

Face it now. You need an electrician to look at what you want and to permit and install the basic 12 or 24 circuit  panel, feed for the panel and a couple of surface mount outlets.

What you do after that is your baby. Just don't try to do it yourself without professional help.

[Melbo]

Hey Ace

I have a different opinion than some posters.

I would try to have someone you feel comfortable doing the work put in the sub panel

From there if you are even mildly competent you can finish the job

But I would have the person who put in the sub panel check your work before sealing it up

The reason for the check is to be sure that wire and breakers are properly matched and polarity is maintained.

hope this helps --- your mileage may vary

Melbo

[niles500]

Yup - have an electrician permit the job - letting you install the EMT and pull the wiring to the panel, install the switches and receps - then he can do the panel and the breakers - this would save some you some money and have professional oversight while meeting permit and code requirements - HTH

[JerryH]

Ace:
Are you pulling permits for the electrical install? 
Out of curiosity ... what's service for the garage? 
What's your proposed load?
I'd agree with the white pvc comments -- should be gray. 
Use LB fittings to 90 pipe and wire into the backside of the panel. 

We built our polebarn, but opted not to permit the electrical.  With a friend, who's a commercial electrician, we ran 2" conduit to the polebarn and installed a 100 amp panel.  Panel height was at eye level, can't remember actual height.  Since we were not having it checked, I opted to run romex.  On a few selected drops, from above the truss height, I did use conduit.  But pretty much everything in just romex.  Outlet heights are just above counter height (about 42-45" to center).  Duplexes were not GFI, nor would I (personally) want them in my shop. 

If you desire to follow the code, find an electrician or hopefully you have a friend who's an electrician.

JerryH

[Len Silva]

Ace,
When I built my 40 x 60 shop I put in a new 200 amp service because it was cheaper than running 300 feet to the house. Because I was not sure exactly what my future needs might be, I ran a 1" EMT conduit completely around the building at the very top of the posts with a "4-11 deep" box at the top of each post. With that arrangement, I can install outlets of any type on any post and arrange or change circuits as needed.
I also ran a PVC air line completely around the top with a capped tee at every post so I could drop an air line wherever I needed it.

Len

[Ace]

Thanks guys and you all have given me some very good ideas BUT... my initial plans were to do as Niles has suggested. Put in all the conduit where needed and boxes where needed and have an electrician do all the hooking up and checking! It's hard to get started if you have never done it before and I am just trying to help the electrician with all the grunt work! A simple outlet, or switch, I know I can wire it up after the big stuff is done but starting from scratch is a booger!

Thanks again...
Ace