Newbies - Narrowing down our bus search

[Runcutter]

Deb, decades ago when PD-4905's were front line equipment, I was a driving instructor (among other things) for a company that ran everything from schoolbuses to transits/suburbans, and 4903's & 4905's.  I certainly understand why so many folks are recommending automatics (and I agree for quite a few reasons) -- but, if you're set on a stick, there's no reason you can't learn to drive it properly.  I'm strictly a GM guy, no experience with MCI's, Eagles, Prevosts -- but on GM's, every bus, every transmission is different.  Within the same bus, they're different hot and cold.

RJ has an article on shifting, and I believe he's been known to travel to teach.  I searched and found that you're in Brookline, MA (I'm originally from North Andover, and drove buses in the Merrimack Valley, in/out of Boston.  Locally, the guy I'd go to is Spike Michaud in Brentwood, NH -- Michaud Bus Sales.  His son Jim runs the company now, but Spike is still around.  He was Director of Maintenance for his family bus company (Michaud Bus in Salem).  Take a look at Michaud's website, busesonline.com.  You might find something that fits the bill -- and you might want to give Jim/Spike a call to discuss your search.

Driving a stick shift bus is a skill.  When I taught, I'd teach bus maneuvering on an automatic transit, shifting on a synchromesh schoolbus, then they'd graduate to the non-syncro coach.  I will say that there was great satisfaction in making smooth up and downshifts -- using the model of the bridal party standing in the aisle in white, with glasses of red wine that shouldn't be spilled.  If some of the folks I taught could learn, almost anyone can.

However, one other thing I may be missing is where you want to go.  One former member had to trade his stick 4106 for an automatic 4108 because he wanted to go to beaches that had steep grades in and out.  Grades, off-roading speak more to the Crown mentioned earlier -- highway coaches don't like hills, and definitely don't like going off pavement.

Arthur

[luvrbus]

Can you still get parts for the oil clutch like some 4905 used

[Geom]

Manual vs. Automatic:
In our discussions, John is willing to compromise on a manual before he's willing to compromise on height.  He believes the fuel economy will be be ~8 MPG for manual and ~6 MPG for an automatic.  Most of the information I've seen agrees with that.  He believes the 30% gain in fuel economy is worth a manual.

We actually average ~7mpg out of our 730, paired with a 6v92.
But regardless of the MPG differential, fuel will be the least of your expenses on a bus (unless you plan on running a long distance hauling operation ).
You'll blow any perceived fuel savings doing a single burned out clutch rebuild (not to mention the PITA it is owning one the rest of the time).

[LuckyChow]

I personally don't think you will get much better fuel mileage on a stick than 1 mpg in an Eagle.  But there's a lot of variables to fuel mileage.  I have a lot of miles in a 4905 and an 05 Eagle with stick.  I wouldn't go back to a stick if they gave me the bus.  Once you have to back down a long, steep, winding hill to the bottom because a car in front of you stopped to watch a bear ambering along the side of the road, you'll understand.

Back in 1980 Trailways started buying Model 10's with 740's.  A lot of the old drivers didn't want anything to do with them and were bad mouthing them bad.  Then they drove one.  Couldn't get them back in an 05 after that ---- much grumbling if they got assigned one.  I remember one that said the "D" on the shifter means "Done had a stick shift and Don't want another".  

[daddyoften]

Just a quick note about size....
We are a family of ten but the two oldest kids are out of the house. We have a 4107 with the front hump raised up to level the roof and it's only 35 ft long. We are planning on a two rear bedroom with a side isle and a large bunk above the drivers area. The farthest room with be or queen bedroom. Next room with be three bunks. Yes it will be tight but we figure it's only going to be used for sleeping and cooking. We want to travel to see things and be outside! We will be towing our 10 passenger sprinter with it. We chose a 35' for the exact reason you did as well. A lot of state parks limit to 35' max and we want to fit more places to see more things! :-):-)

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[Scott & Heather]

You guys wouldn't believe the places we can get into with a 40 foot bus. The campground we are at right now is the tightest I've ever been in. It's tight. Unhook the toad and squeeze in tight. I can't imagine having 5 feet less....after fulltiming 5 years. You guys are brave and so easy!


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[Emcemv]

Great post! I just have 3 things to say, if you are getting a bus, do these things:

Listen to Luvrbus (Clifford)
Listen to RJ
Get to know Luke at US Coach for parts and repairs. (In NJ)


Combined, these 3 people have about 9 million years of experience in this and can steer you the right way.

I absolutely mean no offense to all the other fantastic contributors to this forum.  If you want to know about buses, this is the place to be!

[RJ]

We have a 4107 with the front hump raised up to level the roof and it's only 35 ft long. We are planning on a two rear bedroom with a side isle and a large bunk above the drivers area.

John & Deb -

I'd completely forgotten about this fellow's project!  But it sounds like he's on to something that might work for you.

Mom & Dad in the back, with a queen bed sideways (headboard against the driver's side wall.) Daughter's room with an upper twin bunk and desk/workstation/storage/closet below, possibly pocket doors for privacy in both bedrooms.

Head next, keeping with a side aisle to maximize space utilization for the shower.  Most folk who have seen my 5C are amazed at the size of my shower, compared to other 35' rigs.  This is especially a consideration for the ladies on board!

After head, small galley with fridge, convection microwave plus a two-burner induction cooktop, bar sink and as much counter space as can be squeezed in.  Most folk are for-going an oven nowadays, but you might prefer to have one.

Small living room area, may or may not have room for a standard fold-out couch/bed, depends on rear room and galley sizes.  Maybe 2 or 3 really nice  recliners instead?

Luke at US Coach in NJ may still have a seated 35-foot MC-5C with an 8V71/4-spd powertrain for sale.  There was a blue one there when I stopped in to have my coach serviced last year.  You would have to do a roof raise to meet your height criteria, but that's not too difficult a project on that vintage MCI if you can do the work yourself.  Check out Craig Shepard's site for a well-documented similar project:  www.gumpydog.com.  Luke's number, which you should program into your phone, is 1-888-262-2434.  If you call him about the MCI (or any others he might have available,) please let him know I referred you.

RJ has an article on shifting, and I believe he's been known to travel to teach.

Yes I have.  PM me for more info.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[RJ]

John & Deb -

Look what popped up on my Facebook feed:

https://mcallen.craigslist.org/cto/5413989659.html

McAllen is near Brownsville, TX.

Just a thought.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[TomC]

I have never been sorry about getting a 40ft bus. I wish I had the money to buy a MCI102C3. Instead, I bought an AMGeneral transit bus. It has 6'10" headroom, 102" wide (the extra 6" is very noticeable). True it has only 22" of under storage area, not really suitable for full timing. But, I've squeezed in everything I needed-130gal fuel, 130gal water, 85gal gray, 45gal black, 20gal propane, 2-8D deep cycle house batteries, 10kw Powertech gen, etc.
I drove 1.3 million miles trucking-always with a 13spd manual (the best manual in my opinion [except maybe an 18]). When converting my Kenworth to the motorhome, I took out the 13spd manual and had an Allison HT740 installed. I just wished I had had that transmission when I was driving truck cross country. Really and truly a joy to drive. Good Luck, TomC

[robertglines1]

you really need to throw a figure out there..  Haven't ever had a campground throw a tape on a 40 ft vs 35 ft bus. Most can't tell year as some have a ten year old limit.(usually higher end camp grounds). I have a 45ft ex entertainer with very high ceilings and 4 full bays for storage.  The steering on that series is tighter than my last 40ft coach. 46ft radius.  I know your here for input so we know what you want to do with it..But how much$$$ is to much?  By the way in Indiana a state park cost $33 a night. with just elect-no sewer or water at site.    Bob

[Dave5Cs]

Tommmmmy, Grumpy, Oh buddy!....LOL
RJ interesting find 5Csaudie Like mine kind of. except i have never seen one yet that has a 8V-71 in it. most have the 6V-71. The ad also says more cooling ability in the engine but we know that isn't true, As you and JC discovered on our's.

John and Deb welcome to the world of Busnutishness.
I own and re converted a 1979 5C Saudie Coach 35 feet long with an Automatic MT  644 Same as RJ's drive train.
It is a good Bus but mine also have the center door fixed and taken out before I got it.
If you decide on a 35 foot 5C, good Bus to convert I would look for one with a 6V92 Turbo Like JC has. A whole lot more power than mine. I agree with the automatic much nicer and less maintenance. It can be a little tight at times but you can also make it your own to live in and is a lot easier to get in to tight places. If i knew then what I know now , we would have bought a 102C3 period. Bigger taller and wider. It would have had a 8V92 Turbo with automatic like Tom V's. It's all a personal choice. don't get so excited that you miss the original plan and your needs. It's all fun and such but in the end it is costly to maintain and keep up but well worth the fuss if you decide to do it.
What ever you guys decide to buy enjoy and have fun!...

Dave5Cs

[kyle4501]

http://sellmyrv.today/listing.php?listing_id=98723

Has lots of cool stuff already in place.
120+ gal of fresh water & more than that for waste water - longer time between having to hook up.
Washer & dryer on board will be handy indeed when full timing.

Ceiling height may not be enough, But - don't underestimate the benefits of a quality purpose built unit.

Good luck in your search.

I hope you find the one that you all LOVE. Always easier to deal with issues if everyone likes it. 

[lostagain]

I'am on the road with wifi only once or twice a day. Driving home from DFW TX. Bus doing awesomely. Battling head winds. In Gr Falls MT. Home tomorrow. My 5C has MC9 front and rear caps, with a straight roof joining them. It results in about a 8 1/2" roof raise. Ample room for insulation and head room. The 6V92 and Allison HT740 are great.

We're I you, I would be looking for the latest, best bus you can afford. For me, it would be a MCI 102 D3. I am an MCI guy. 40' long. They turn sharper than the old 35'. If you can fit a 35 footer somewhere, a 40' will fit too. They have 4 stroke engines: S 60, Cat, or Cummins. And an automatic. The manuals are so 20th century... I really like shifting them, but an auto is so much better. Also, you will have a really hard time re-selling a manual:  nobody wants them anymore. The D3 is quite affordable now. It is a simple basic coach.


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[lostagain]

Oh and with a child, teen, definitely 40'

Whatever you get, enjoy.

JC


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