Coolant level just a little low

[Scott Crosby]

I'm working on a 4106 for somone.  I was checking the fluids when I discovered that her coolant level was super low.  There is no factory heat lines it's just the 8v71 with a v730 cooler as well.  Surge tank was completely empty, I then pulled the temp sensor in the thermostat housing and what do you know it was bone dry.  No coolant even in the thermostat housing.  It's not broke down, I'm here fixing a brake issue and some oil leaks for her.  She does not know when it was last checked but never by her.  She's had it to a few shops and the engine is a new professionally just over one year old engine. No coolant in oil and no big signs of leaking.  I really think it's been low for a long time.  I did find a small hole in a tube but it's a tiny tiny leak.  She has been having a trans problem I assume is an over heat issue.  It would make sense.  Check out this video of how low the coolant is.  It was shocking and she just drove it like 1500 miles.  Not a drop of green coolant anywhere on the engine.  I pulled the top hose on the large tube that connects the bottom head to the thermostat housing and no coolant came out.  I pulled the bottom hose top side and coolant came out.  So the level of coolant in the engine is right at water pump height somewhere in between the two large hoses on that tube.  I was shocked it is not damaged, it's still running and I suspect any lower and the water pump would have been dry and that would have been super bad.  Oil level is full.  I would have bet money that you could not run the engine that low but I guess you can.  I added 6 gallons to fill the surge tank, and remember the factory heat lines are capped off so the capacity is greatly reduced.  It's just the radiator, engine and v730 canister cooler.

Anyone else shocked it drove cross country like that?  It's in Texas btw so it's not 20 below it was 60-70's.   Pulling the temp sensor out of the t stat housing and not having coolant come out then not having a drop on the 3" probe was a very unique and surreal experience...

I'm trying to educate the owner and working to help her and other are too but it's hard when she uses the bus a lot and has very little mechanical abilities not the time to do the upkeep herself. She relies on shops from town to town who know nothing about old buses and either screw things up or are as unknoledgable as her on the old bus.  She's an entertainer and about to get a newer prevost with a 4 stroke so at least other shops will be better suited to help her.  Anyway not bashing her but she does need to hire a good person to maintain her bus for every trip.  So this post is about the engine still running the other info was just some background so you can understand how it got like this with no one noticing.  She knows how to check the oil and v730 fluid level, but when I asked her about the coolant she said she never checked it and no one ever showed her how.  Yikes I'm going to show her how tomorrow. 

Enjoy the video and knowing that a Detroit can survive this but it was a close one as the rear head height is right at that fluid level too.  I never tested if a water pump would prime from a dry sump but maybe it could even work with less coolant but I won't be testing that on one of my engines....and chalk this experience up to extreme luck on the owners side.

Very low coolant

[Oonrahnjay]

     Any chance it could have hidden damage just ready to show up?   Like a head gasket that will blow in a few miles, a warped head that will fail to seal oil and water, liners that are overheated and damaged, etc.  I'm a little concerned that just because it seems OK now, it's really not.

[Scott Crosby]

Of course but it did drive here without any issues and not knowing how long it's taken to get that low there are many unknowns.  Where did it go and why.  The mere fact that it starts and runs is a great sign for her luck though.  I'd lean towards betting on her luck.  Sad thing is that she will sell this bus soon with a $24,000 receipt for a new engine just over a year ago but I am going to tell her she really needs to reveal this maintaine issue with that disclosure because It would not be right.  It certainly was not good for the engine and would devalue it greatly to me if I was buying it.

[brmax]

Thats good you found out, you saved a bunch of money. I am guessing they didn't have low surge tank switches on the tank. Always bothered me no temp means no conductor /coolant. lucky! that's worth writing a song about, much better than many songs
Floyd

[HB of CJ]

Thinking nasty here.  One question would be how long COULD have that engine run without hardly any water?  Would not it have shown immediate overheat signals and damage?  Why none?  Could it be the Bus Conversion is fine with the very low coolant situation only being apparent now?  Could the coolant level just now be low?

How could THAT happen?  Human intervention?  A nasty prank?  Does she have enemies?  How about vandals?  I do not think a 4106 automatic compo would like running that low for more than 15 minutes.  Not 1500 miles.  Just me.  Is there any way to test this prospect?  What else could have been monkeyed with?  Ouch indeed!

[Iceni John]

This is good reason to have a level gauge or sight glass on the header or surge tank.   I ended up making mine out of high-temperature thick-wall silicone tube  -  I can now easily see exactly how much coolant is in the tank, and it's immediately obvious if the level has changed at all.

John

[lostagain]

Scott I don't think it could've gone 1500 miles on low coolant. It had to have gotten hot recently and lost the coolant. I would fill it and see what happens next, like does it leak out without getting hot.

JC

[kyle4501]

I'm guessing you will see a significant leak once it is properly filled. 

[Scott Crosby]

It's not leaking.  It held the coolant all night.  I ran it and no coolant loss while running.  We will Test drive in the am and wash the engine.  If only they would have ever checked it to have a point to go back to when it was full.  I can't believe no one ever checked it,  I thought maybe choo choo would have done it when the replaced the v730 a few months ago but they didn't change the cooler they left the old one on and from what I came across today what they did I don't have faith that they would have even checked the coolant level. 

[luvrbus]

It more than likely got a big air pocket and blew the water out it happens, even adding 6 gals she still had over 14 gals without the front heater

[HB of CJ]

Or again, a nasty prank?  Where ever the evidence or lack of it goes, there you are?  Also begs the question what else might have been monkeyed with?  I tend sometimes to default to the dark side.  Seems to have served me kinda well.  Respectfully.

[Scott Crosby]

The only problem I have noticed is that the filler door did not seal.  If it's not been checked in over a year, not pressurizing and could slosh out at first and evaporate and evacuate out slowly over a long time through that.  I cut a gasket to seal tightly to the door.  They honestly have never checked the coolant since that engine was put in over a year ago and drivin maybe 20,000 miles?   Yes there is still about 10 gallons in the system but to be so low the thermostat housings are in air shocked me.  It certainly is way less than optimal cooling.  I won't know if it's pressurizing until this morning when we take it for a test drive.  I've been working replacing oil lines and fixing a v730 leak that was a big mess. 

[Scott Crosby]

Here is the cause of the v 730 leak.   That little adatpter plate that you make to fit the round trans face to the adatpter plate, where you run a drain hose back to the pan was not sealed good and the drain was what I can only imagine intentionally plugged up by the installer.  That trapped massive amounts of fluid up around the flywheel.  I disconnected the hose and nothing came out. I loosened the plate and popped it off and it gushed out so much oil it was crazy. Usually only what's below the drain hole comes out so I only had a small rag on the ground to absorb it... My rag flowed away in a river or oil. It was a bit like using a band-aid to treat an elephant that stepped on a land mine. Good news is that since it's the cat bus they had plenty of kitty litter.  And the bumper has one of those long rubber shields hanging below it that nearly touches ground, so there not really a way to get something in there in a hurry to stop the flood.   Good surface prep and a working drain should fix the leak.

V730 no drain

[luvrbus]

Those old flip caps are bad about leaking,I guess that is why CARB and the EPA are making people change over to the cap to be in compliance with their BS rules and regulations for oil,radiators and fuel tanks

[Scott & Heather]

Scott, let me just chime in here and say how really kind of you it is to be traveling the country working on people's buses for a pittance rate. You're a blessing to many I'm sure. And I know of a handful of folk you helped for nothing in return at all. If I could get you down to the valley Weslaco, TX area I'd have you take a gander at our sluggish 6v92 but you're a ways away.


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