Couple Detroit Series 50 Questions

[jmblake]

To start off HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone, I still haven't done anything with me engine troubles but I got to get things moving one way or another. I got a estimate for parts in a worst situation from the closest detroit service center, and not needing everything on the list I will still have at least $5500.00 in just parts. So my question is I found a 1994 Gillig Phantom bus that has a series50 in it with 320,000 miles, since it has that many miles I have read that the balance shafts need replaced at 300,000 mile, what and how much does that involve? The seller doesn't know much about it and doesn't know what transmission is in it, does anybody know what transmission these buses came with? and would I have to change my rearend gearing? Plus what HP would it be set at and how hard is it to turn up the HP? and last what about jakebrakes, the seller didn't know what that was but said when you leave off the throtle it like bogs down like you are putting on the brakes. I can get the whole bus cheaper than I can buy the parts for mine. I just don't know if I want to tackle the switch, every thing I read in the archives once done they wouldn't go back. Thanks for any input Jason

[luvrbus]

Jason, the ones I have been around with series 50 have a B400R (retarder) transmission it doesn't take much to boost the hp to 350 fairly cheap to do.
I would take a Pro/Link and read the ECM that's probably not the original engine or transmission the 1's I looked at in Houston with over 300,000 miles the engines had all been rebuilt or replaced.
Maybe one of transit guys on here can tell you how many miles a series 50 lasted in transit service.The gears depend on your driving speed most people lockout 6th gear running the 3:36 or 3:73 it to keep the tranny from hunting gears in 5th and 6th.The standard rear axle ratio for the Houston buses were 4:28, you will need the complete bus to do the swap it saves you a ton of money in parts.I wouldn't pay over 3500 bucks they are every were for 2500 to 3500 bucks      

[jmblake]

Thanks Cliff, I can't find any close to me for that kind of money, the one I found was just north of 5g. EricB has on but it is a V drive and I don't want to have to find a transmission also. Like you said I want to find it in all one package.Here is the quote I got back from Detroit.
Jason

[luvrbus]

DD parts are expensive I have a terrible time with people understanding the price of genuine OEM over the aftermarket parts.You quote people 4 grand for a set of liners and pistons for a 8v92.
They shake their head and tell you I can buy a complete overhaul kit on the internet for 1200 hundred and bring it to you.I just tell them you buy you install the s*** no way are you coming after me when it fails.I'll check for you and see if any auctions are coming up in your area   

[jmblake]

Yes, I learned my lesson on aftermarket s*** they got me once not again. The guy is suppose to look for a tag on the transmission tomorrow. I got to get moving on this since we have trips already planned and payed for this summer. Hopefully my mechanic's son who is the head mechanic at the local IH truck dealer will help me out if I decide to switch engines. He said he would help rebuild my old one since his dad's not able anymore.

[Tom Y]

Jason, What town are you in? I am in Warren Pa. I looked at a 748 with retarder for my 5C and with that big bottom on trans I could not make it fit. I know you do not have a Dropbox and it should be a 400 or 500 trans. Take a tape when looking.

[jmblake]

Tom, Iam south of you in a little town of Distant right on Rt 28/66, The bus is in Kentuckey, I would like to find one closer if posible.
Jason

[Oonrahnjay]

...  you will need the complete bus to do the swap it saves you a ton of money in parts.I wouldn't pay over 3500 bucks they are every were for from 2500 to 3500 bucks   

   You will not *believe* how much of the "little things" you will need - if you don't buy a complete bus, you'll have to lay out a lot of $$$ for the small fittings, wiring connectors for the ECM and TCM, accelerator pedal and wiring, etc.  If you're going to do this, it's a must that you get the entire bus.
   $2500 - $3500 is about the right going price in the southeastern US; value at the auctions tends to vary with the mileage on engine, condition of components, etc. so don't worry about paying a few $$ for a super bus.  (When I bought an '03 low-floor Gillig with a Cummins 8.3, I had access to the maintenance records and knew that the transmission was new within a year and the rear end had been done within 18 months.  If you can get records, that helps.)

[Brian Diehl]

I agree - get the entire bus if you possibly can.  When I put a Cummins ISM in my MCI 96A3 I bought the entire front clip of a freightliner.  I couldn't believe how many different parts I took off the truck to use on the conversion.  In fact, my conversion was of better quality and durability because of the parts source I had.  If I had just bought the engine/tranny without the front clip it would have taken me much longer to make the swap and it would not have been of as high of quality.  So far, I have about 60,000 miles on the swap and still going strong.  I don't regret the work or cost in the least!

[luvrbus]

I found a 2004 Gillig in Charleston WV only 2 problems it is a Cummins 8.3 (ISL) and a 2004 will be a EGR engine. I forgot the link but it was on the Gov Liquidation site it was at 700 bucks with 2  days to go.The set up you are looking at will be non EGR engine and that is a big + then it's close without all the auction fees and transportation involved that add to the costs

[TomC]

Better to not have EGR, but it isn't that big of a deal. You can deactivate it if you want. My 1984 Mercedes 300 TurboDiesel has EGR and it has 490,000mi on the engine. Good Luck, TomC

[jmblake]

Well he got back to me with a picture of the top of the transmission and a short video of the bus running but I can't seem to get it to load the files are to big plus he said he found a tag on the engine that states it has been rebuilt. Jason

[luvrbus]

It's probably going to be a World Transmission the 700 series were out of production in 1994 then it could be a ZF which is not bad either.I had gut feeling the engine and transmission had been rebuilt so it sounds like you may have found a good package
 

[Oonrahnjay]

Better to not have EGR, but it isn't that big of a deal. You can deactivate it if you want. My 1984 Mercedes 300 TurboDiesel has EGR and it has 490,000mi on the engine. Good Luck, TomC

    Yeah, my '03 Jetta TDI is rolling up on 400,000 miles -- I'm not going to talk about EGR when EPA could be looking ...

[luvrbus]

Those little engines don't generate the heat of 10L diesel engine either