AGM vs Lithium Batteries

[belfert]

I couldn't find anything about another Boeing jet having battery issues online.

I am not worried about fires with lithium batteries personally.  The vast majority of us have at least one lithium battery that we carry around all the time in our phones.  If you have a laptop or tablet there is a another lithium battery.  Those of us on this forum likely have lithium batteries in our cordless tools too.  I happen to have six lithium batteries for cordless tools.

[luvrbus]

Telephones and tool are on a lot smaller scale,my old Hp laptop would get so hot you could not hold it. The Lithium battery probably adds to global warming and we are not aware off it . I believe the technology will improve in the coming years

[kyle4501]

As for the excessive heat concern & comparing a cell phone battery to a coach house battery bank-
A cell phone has about 3 Ah worth of battery -
A coach battery bank will have at least 10 times that if not 20+ times that size.

In a mass grouping that large, I'm guessing something more than passive cooling will be required to prevent uncontrolled temperature rise.

As much as I like the light weight lithium batteries - - I'm waiting for more field data AND the cost to come down to a more reasonable level.

[Gerry H]

Seems like a lot more safety issues coming to light with lithium batteries everyday. I keep one eye on the lithium stuff, but sleep better at night with AGM. I like the no off-gassing and low maintenance (water) part of AGM's, a little longer life than standard wet cells, and mid cost factor. I guess the thing that keeps me up at night is the proper charging voltage factor for each type. Get it right and all is well. Get it wrong and s--t happens. Keep the smoke inside. Gerry H

[luvrbus]

Seems like a lot more safety issues coming to light with lithium batteries everyday. I keep one eye on the lithium stuff, but sleep better at night with AGM. I like the no off-gassing and low maintenance (water) part of AGM's, a little longer life than standard wet cells, and mid cost factor. I guess the thing that keeps me up at night is the proper charging voltage factor for each type. Get it right and all is well. Get it wrong and s--t happens. Keep the smoke inside. Gerry H 

My inverters are 3 stage charging and were set right Lifeline check it,they came to the conclusion with the AZ heat the batteries charging and no space between the batteries installed in a well vented area for air movement the batteries had a thermal runaway. That is their story and they are sticking to it 

If revision D is not followed the warranty is void revision D dated 4-14-14 I am not the only person that has had a thermal runaway on AGM batteries 

[solodon]

I remember reading that the Lithium batteries that Boeing is using are old technology.  Overheating is a problem but once the FAA approves a design it's almost impossible to get it changed so they have to use unsafe batteries when safer ones are available because the safer ones are not part of the design.

[RichardEntrekin]

I have a 1000 aHr LiPo bank installed in my Newell. They have been in service for over three years now. I am not trying to sell the technology just report from an actual user.

They are 600 lbs lighter than the 6 8d lifelines they replaced.
I set up the charger profile to charge them to 90% SOC and recharge at 20% SOC.
They operate at a slightly higher voltage than lead acid, voltage is not the best indicator of SOC (state of charge), and you should not treat them as drop ins in an existing system.
You do need a battery monitoring system with ability to disconnect via relay to protect the batteries from overcharge or over discharge. The BMS is independent of the charger/inverter setup.
You will need to think about your charging scheme if using the engine alternator to charge them since they don't play well with the lead acid chassis batteries due to the slightly different voltages. And the LiPos will accept an insane amount of current from the alternator.

As you search the inter web for the pioneers who have installed them in motor homes you will see a pattern in their posts. First, a lot of information about the setup, pricing, and initial performance. Then you will see some frequent updates. Then infrequent updates. Why? Cause they simply work very well.

I didn't get so OCD that I performed capacity tests. I simply looked at it from a real world use perspective. The 6 8d AGMs would not run the elec fridge and aqua hot system through the night if camping in cold weather. The LiPo system will run the fridge and aqua hot for two days plus the microwave and tv before I run the gennie for charging.  The comment that technomadia made about capacity loss had some uncertainty about the accuracy of the results and some potential assignable causes so I don't think that one comment should be construed as the last word on long term capacity.

I want to emphasize that LiPO set ups are not drop ins for lead acid. One should educate themselves on proper system, especially charger settings, before  installing. Also, the use of LiPo in motor home applications is so moderate compared to the car/marine/off grid world that some of the concerns such as cell imbalance are not real problems in our use.

In the end I did not install them because they are cheaper based on usable amp hours. I did not install them because they saved 600 lbs or freed up half of the battery bay. I did not install them because they were less worry than AGMs. I installed them because I could go for days off grid with a energy hog coach without having to run the gennie.

[lostagain]

I have 4 good old 6V golf cart batts for a house bank. Relatively cheap I realize now after reading this thread. Top up the water in them once in a while. No big deal. Run the genny a couple of hours a day when dry camping this time of year. I don't mind. In the summer, the solar panels keep up to the demand most of the time. I don't see any compelling reason to change anything.

JC

[lvmci]

Hi Tom & All, interesting article in January's  Motorhome magazine by Ken Freund, Hands on Hotline, about  lithium-cobalt-oxide vs newer litium iron phosphate batteries. lvmci...