breaking down all my hubs on the 4106..

TomC · July 13, 2015, 09:19:34 PM

I had my bearings, both front and rear changed to oil. Virtually all trucks are using oil bearings. Good Luck, TomC

Tom Y · July 14, 2015, 04:29:51 AM

Todd, Nice work you are doing. That rear bearing find saved a major problem somewhere.

OneLapper · July 14, 2015, 06:02:48 AM

Todd,

When I bought my bus, the first thing I did was put new tires, brakes, cams, drums, bearings, seals, etc. Anything safety related, I inspected, replaced or serviced. At the time I don't even recall questioning oil bath vs grease. I took the old seals off, went to Fleet Pride and ordered replacements. I filled the rear axle housing until I had oil coming out of both sides, then tipped the axle left and right for several hours to ensure oil got into the hubs, and I continued to top off the oil. I imagine the oil level is above the upper plug when the axle is level but I don't think it's hurting anything. The axle is still there and the wheels haven't fallen off!

Darkspeed · July 14, 2015, 07:18:35 AM

Thanks OneLapper! My concern was specifically the PD 4106 set up because 1. its not designed to pump oil into the hubs 2. the seals are designed to keep oil out of the hubs 3. the oil plug is lower than the tube so you either are not filling deep enough to wet the hubs or you have so much oil that you are creating drag / foam in the diff.

If you say it is working for you cool! I just wanted to know what you changed about the seals that allowed you run the hubs on diff oil? If you put OEM seals in you are relying on them to leak to lubricate your hubs or is their a special "convert to oil" seal that makes this happen?

Just very curious, Thanks!

chessie4905 · July 14, 2015, 10:09:47 AM

My experience was to install the Stemco style seals on hubs; don't have the number anymore. They seal inside themselves, so eliminates problems from axle surface wear. Then used a pipe elbow to raise oil fill level in differential. No foaming issues were encountered. The oil level is same height as all axles with oil lubed hubs since the centerline of the ring gear has to be the same on all differentials. I personally like grease seals on old coaches, at least on mine; you get a leak and oil goes over the brake lining and drum, reducing braking by over 30 percent. Quite a mess to clean up and shoes should be replaced instead of cleaned or you will have gear oil seeping out of pores of lining any time they get hot. Others claim no issues with oil type seals. To each his own. Also, to be fair, the seal at end of axle shaft could fail and cause gear oil to migrate to the hubs, eventually leaking onto lining and drum if the inner grease seal failed too. Mobil and other companies mfg synthetic semi fluid grease for use in non oil hubs. In the past some trucking companies switched over to grease because a seal failure would cause a DOT inspection failure. Haven't kept up on this lately.

NOTE: check for wear on axle stub surface where inner hub bearing rides, especially on bottom. Wouldn't hurt to check with a micrometer. If it is noticeably worn, bearing will seat loosely and cause excess seal lip movement beyond design. Especially check for this if experiencing repeat seal failure in 10 to 20 thousand miles or less.

Darkspeed · July 14, 2015, 01:39:21 PM

Iv been fighting the rain storms here in Florida..

The front passenger side had the brake maladjusted and dragging.

Everything in the hub looks like it got too hot at some point.

The bearings are pitted and there are two flaws on the spindle.

Pitting in one area and scoring? Chiseling? on the seal surface..

The outer was almost cut through by a chisel as well.

I have resolved to replacing all bearings, cups, seals, and nuts.

O and some one drove out the bushings and seals on the s-cams and replaced them with solid bushing stock with no seals.

This added to the brake dragging issue as the s-cam was hung.

Yay! and by Yay i mean hot shower, hot coffee, and warm parts catalog...

wg4t50 · July 14, 2015, 02:02:20 PM

Geez, I am with One Lapper, on my MC7, when I bought it, it was with the full understanding that it needed everything, I was right, every bearing, seal, S Cam, bushings, shoes, springs, king pins, rear, slack adjusters, air bags, radius rod bushings, steering gear upgrade, all tie rod ends, drag link ends, the list is about for ever, but it never let sit on the road, had in every state east of the Miss River and part of Canada for over 20 years. Would still have it except a stroke cured my crawling around under it etc, so bought a store bought Foretravel with the Cummins ISM500 & Allison 4000 retarder auto, spoil me, you bet.
Just no class like the ole MC7 with the 12V-71 & RTO910

Dave M

eagle19952 · July 14, 2015, 02:23:52 PM

it looks to me like some one cut a seized bearing off with a torch....

Belzona will cure that spindle.

Darkspeed · July 14, 2015, 07:38:50 PM

Quote from: eagle19952 on July 14, 2015, 02:23:52 PM
it looks to me like some one cut a seized bearing off with a torch....

Belzona will cure that spindle.

Thanks Donald I will check that out!

RJ · July 14, 2015, 11:41:06 PM

Todd -

A late friend of mine used to work as a sales rep for this outfit: https://www.castolin.com/en-US They had some pretty amazing stuff for building worn things up so they could be machined back to specs.

FWIW & HTH. . .

chessie4905 · July 15, 2015, 03:46:07 AM

There are companies that will remove damaged axle hsg end and press and weld in a new one. I think they can do on site. Maybe they only have replacement stubs for semi's. Luke may know.

OneLapper · July 15, 2015, 04:25:41 AM

Quote from: Darkspeed on July 14, 2015, 07:18:35 AM
Thanks OneLapper! My concern was specifically the PD 4106 set up because 1. its not designed to pump oil into the hubs 2. the seals are designed to keep oil out of the hubs 3. the oil plug is lower than the tube so you either are not filling deep enough to wet the hubs or you have so much oil that you are creating drag / foam in the diff.

If you say it is working for you cool! I just wanted to know what you changed about the seals that allowed you run the hubs on diff oil? If you put OEM seals in you are relying on them to leak to lubricate your hubs or is their a special "convert to oil" seal that makes this happen?

Just very curious, Thanks!

I didn't convert it from grease to oil, I'm assuming the busing company did, so I can't really offer any advice on how to do it. At the time I didn't realize it used to be greased.

Tom Y · July 15, 2015, 04:46:56 AM

That spindle should be fine, what will the burn marks hurt? Clean and buff for seal, maybe hold seal out on hub a little.

bevans6 · July 15, 2015, 05:28:28 AM

You can build the seal gouge up with the Belzona (thanks for that, btw, cool looking stuff) and then install a speedi-sleeve. I installed speedi-sleeve's for the oil seals on both my front hubs. The stub axle where the bearing goes I would just polish it out with some 400 grit paper.

Brian

Darkspeed · July 15, 2015, 09:44:15 AM

Thanks guys! The grease seal actually rides on the major diameter of the bearing spacer ( the one with the gouge on the side ) so I think I can clean up the side with a file and be ok. New bearings, cups, and seals are on the way..