Heavy duty SAE 50 engine oil for trans?

[John Z]

My 4104 calls for the above engine oil for the Spicer box. Hard to find around here and when I do its usually packaged as a motor cycle oil in qts, and expensive.

What oil are others using, where did you find it.

I know its been mentioned to use the same 40w you put in the engine, but if I can find it, I'd like to use what GM says to use.

[chessie4905]

   Calls for non detergent 50W. Any lighter weight will make gears spin even longer when going from neutral to 1st. I was always temped to buy some 50w synthetic and try it. Maybe it wouldn't thin as much when hot and help.

[John Z]

Well, here is the exact paragraph from the chapter on lubrication:

"Type of oil indicated by symbol 'ES' on chart must be an S.A.E. 50 engine oil of good quality such as 'Aviation Grade Engine Oil' or S.A.E. 50 Heavy Duty Engine Oil designated as for service 'DG'. Ordinary gear oils are not satisfactory.

One of the more recent motor cycles I've owned was a Motto Guzzi. Everyone used a high pressure additive to stand up to the shear forces in the final drive gear box. I'm wondering if such a product exists that might work in my 4104.

[brmax]

I think you should use this in your local search hunting there is many quality brands, SAE 50
http://site.industrial-oil.net/pdfs/Conoco-PowerDrive-Fluid-Spec-Sheet.pdf

Then if ya want here is some old "DG" info , looks like a meaning of Diesel General, go figure I get blown away every time on oil classifications, I have made a good friend at a local oil supplier he is like an Einstein on oil, for laymen sake and it was handy but anyway I ran across these old notes so maybe they can shine a light a bit for ya.

In some other laymen terms mention Eaton Fuller, or Dana Spicer type non synthetic, as long as no "new tags attached" verifying some later changed type of oil.
http://www.earlytimeschapter.org/engineoils.html

[bevans6]

I run a 50W non detergent synthetic manual transmission oil designed for truck transmissions, got it in a five gallon pail at my local truck store.  Is quite fine, I think.

Brian

[John Z]

All you guys seem to be pretty much on track. I talked to a tech at Spicer today. He said they frown on using gear oil because they are mostly too heavy. Spicer recommends 50w motor oil in all of their products, all the way up the line to the ones in the big crawlers.

I like the idea of synthetic, in the hope it would not thin when warm. I notice how much longer it takes to upshift when all heated up. Makes it tuff to get going on a slight upgrade. But I can't afford 210.00 for a pail.

Hmmm, maybe a blend of 40w and 80/90 gear oil?

[brmax]

Probably shouldnt put any 80-90 wt in it as it has additives for extreme pressure.
sae plain jane 50 is a motor oil and is what it calls for, synthetic is for the way newer roadrangers and such.
Do you have a oriley or napa they will get what you need, mineral oil.
Not sure im pickin up what your putting down: makes it tuff to get going on a grade.
do you mean shifting and having to wait for a gear tooth opening.
good day there

[John Z]

Yes on starting out on a grade. My bus is not good at the hole shot. Just starting on the flat it seems to load up on fuel and make black smoke for a few seconds.  On grades, by the time the gears have slowed so I can shift to 2nd, the bus has almost slowed to a crawl.

Your right about ep additives, Spicer does not want them in there.

Mineral oil is their second choice, after 50w motor oil. They said SAE 90 straight mineral oil R&O type, API GL-1.

[bevans6]

Are you double clutching the upshift, no throttle?  I find that is about mandatory.

Brian

[brmax]

Its a excellent way as ya mention to regulate the foot pedal, just getting use to saying they will have to wait because this machine is designed this way ( . ) Its heavy
I recall some 5/4 trannys with detroits and easily if wanted 8 shifts before the other side of the intersection that was fun? in my teens.
Possible to ask the local truck or maintenance facilities mechanic they Im sure can locate some oil and probably give some other good info that might be useful in times ahead, primarily as they buy in bulk. Check the wrench in the shop there!
Detroits like to stay very close to same rpm when easy shifting can occur as I recall many memories ago.

[chessie4905]

  Be careful with using anything heavier than 50w. That trans has an oil pump and may be overstressed with heavier oil.

   If you google amsoil 50w oil they have a way to be able to sign up as a preferred customer at a better price than that. Go for it. The rest of the 4104 owners will be grateful if it helps the shifting and you'll never have to do it again.

[gus]

Well, here is the exact paragraph from the chapter on lubrication:

"Type of oil indicated by symbol 'ES' on chart must be an S.A.E. 50 engine oil of good quality such as 'Aviation Grade Engine Oil' or S.A.E. 50 Heavy Duty Engine Oil designated as for service 'DG'. Ordinary gear oils are not satisfactory.

One of the more recent motor cycles I've owned was a Motto Guzzi. Everyone used a high pressure additive to stand up to the shear forces in the final drive gear box. I'm wondering if such a product exists that might work in my 4104.

John, the reason for the 50W is all these old trans have oil pumps, 90W is too much for the pumps, especially up in the frozen wasteland:) 40 is fine (Or even 30) in cold weather but it is too light in really hot weather.

I have a few antique trucks and all the GMs use this oil. My '60 white WC22 also uses it.

You can find this oil at a dear price at any aviation supply place or airport that services light aircraft. Get the non-detergent engine break-in oil because it is the closest to the original stuff. If you don't have any serious trans leaks the price isn't so bad as it doesn't use a large amount as I remember.

It is hard to find otherwise because very few other machines use it. If you can it will be a lot cheaper than aviation oil.

[John Z]

Well to wrap this up, I had little to no luck with auto parts stores. Some couldn't even order it. The two that could seemed expensive. None of the local truck stops carried anything but a few qts, and none were 50. I tried two truck service/repair shops. They both use only synthetic, again, pretty spendy. The second distributor I called had 5 gallon pails of Rotella T50 for 79.00! Perfect! There's two pails sitting in the back of my car right now. Thanks for your help guys.

[chessie4905]

http://www.amazon.com/Rotella-550019893-Heavy-Duty-Engine/dp/B006CCWAXK