Broken down, Clinton, Mo. Help please!

[Geom]

Hi all,

I'm running into a bit of a problem starting the old gal this afternoon.

Let me provide a bit of background.

We've been having a problem, for a little while, with the starter.
We'd engage the ignition and nothing would happen. I could see a slight voltage drop on the voltmeter on the dash, but no attempt to start.
In the past we just got lucky and it eventually would start.

While at a mechanic, some number of months ago, it did the same thing. He looked at it for a bit, then took a small hammer and tapped on the starter a few times while I tried to turn it over. Viola, it lit right up!

So no huge mystery there, I need a new starter.
Since they're a PITA to replace in this model and this particular mechanic was not prepared to do the work at that time, we just left it as is and were going to deal with it when we took it to another mechanic to have the oil changed, chassis lubed, etc.

We've been dealing with it, occasionally, not starting in the same way -by tapping on the starter. And it's worked like a charm each time. A couple of taps, while someone up front operated the ignition switch and bingo, good to go.

Well anyway this morning I was operating solo, and sure enough it did it to me. I didn't have my handy helper to do the starter trick, so I decided to use the rear start and do it myself. There is no way I can reach both the start switch and tap the starter, but at least the rear start would save me having to walk all the way up front each time.

In any case, after a couple of taps, I was able to start it using the rear start, and drove for a few hours with no issue.
Then I stopped for lunch and shut the engine down.

When I went to start it, same thing happened again. So I figured I'd do the tap/rear start thing again. This time, nada. No amount of tapping was accomplishing a thing!
After doing that for quite a while and looking quite helpless, I asked some guy in the parking lot if he could help. So I had him operate the rear switch, while I did the tapping. Once again nada!

So I set it for front start and he was fortunately nice enough to do the tapping while I tried to start it. Once again, nada. This has always worked before, so now I'm starting to get really concerned. Well we tried it about a half dozen other times and still nothing. Not wanting to take any more of his time, I thanked him and he was on his way, and here I sit.

When I engage either the rear or front start, I can hear a relay click in the electrical box by the engine start switches (as always) but I hear nothing at all by the starter (as always). I can also see a slight voltage drop on the meter (as always) that goes away when I let go of the key.

I have very limited accessibility to the starter and can only see the "front"'of it (solenoid end) from the passenger side.
Everything else, including wiring is buried in the back and out of reach.
I read through the book but it was of no real help and only listed what I'd already been doing.

So, does anyone have any advice on what to do here?
Your help is greatly appreciated, as always.

Thanks
George

[Darkspeed]

My 4106 was doing that and it turned out to be a bad corroded ground connection between the engine and the frame as well as a corroded connector on the battery positive.. It would have enough current to engage the starter relay but not enough to spin the starter every time. I would have to connect ( jump ) my sisters minivan to the bus - positive to battery , negative to engine to get it to fire up. I did once see a guy start a stuck starter by first pouring boiling water on it to get it to unstick.

[Lin]

When a starter gets to the point of needing to be tapped to work, it desperately need replacing.  When you get it to work that way even one time, you've gotten lucky.  Every time after that that tapping works, you are just  gambling with ever decreasing odds of success.  You may give it some time and try again.  Maybe you will hit the jackpot.  If so, drive it to where you can change the starter.   

[Cary and Don]

Can you hear the solenoid going clunk when you hit the starter? It is a big clunking sound not the clicking sound from the magnetic switch on the bulk head. There is a trap door under the bed to access the starter. If you slide the bed towards the door you can get to the access panel. The solenoid is on top of the starter. Kind of a mute point, if you need a starter solenoid, that would be the time to just change the starter.

It would be a good idea to check to make sure the solenoid is getting a good strong connection before spending money on a starter.

I think it might take us too long to get there to be of any help.

Can somebody out there give him some help?

Don and Cary

[luvrbus]

I believe his luck has run out

[Geom]

Ok, I'm going again.

A few minutes after posting this (I've been siting here for hours) a good Samaritan stopped by and asked if I needed help. Turns out he works on detroits and other similar diesel pushers. He was incredible and gave me several things to try, and tried several others with me.
Before he left, he had one last suggestion:
Maybe the bendix is stuck out to the flywheel.

He suggested that maybe if I could move the bus even slightly, it would disengage.

Using my handy external compressor I pressurized the system and was able to release the brakes.
Julie was with me at this point, and we managed to nudge it a few inches.
Then we did the tap trick and bingo, she lit right up!
Whew!!!!! Anyway, it's running now and we're gonna assess our options. It's Friday night and I'm unlikely to get anyone to work on it now. So we're gonna risk it (stupid I know) and just get to an rv park and settle in for a few days to see what options we have.

Thanks all for the help and advice. We know we need to get the starter replaced, but I need to find a mechanic that knows what they're doing with these engines, and those are a rare find indeed, especially around here.

Anyway, I'm signing off for now, but I'll check in later and see if any others posts are there, for the next time this will inevitably happen!!!!

[Cary and Don]

The Diesel Gods are with you. You must have done something VERY good in your past.

Don and Cary

[eagle19952]

around where ?

did the good samaritan/bus mechanic leave a phone number...or offer a referral ?

http://www.truckdown.com/

there are 4 mobile truck repairs within 40 miles of clinton.mo.
truck down has an app for smart phones.

gilbert mobile service 1.49 mi. 417-224-2556


http://www.bbb.org/kansas-city/business-reviews/trucking-transportation-brokers/eads-transportation-service-inc-in-harrisonville-mo-99154007/

http://www.jimstireservice.com/about-us/emergency-road-service.aspx

[lostagain]

It doesn't take a "special" DD 2 stroke mechanic to change a starter. Any half decent tech will be able to fix you up.

JC

[Dave5Cs]

George also if you can't find a new one find a starter re-builder for a lot less. Napa can generally get you one 48 hours unless they have one. There is also a copper disk inside the rear of the solenoid on top that wears out. I know some have taken that out and flipped it over and wa la works again. Just some thoughts.
Dave

[digesterman]

Did that on skidder and crane, it works, flipping the solenoid disk

[luvrbus]

It doesn't take a "special" DD 2 stroke mechanic to change a starter. Any half decent tech will be able to fix you up.

JC

Nope just skinny and strong for a GM I wonder where the turbo is mounted on his 6v92 if you can even see the 3 starter bolts

[Geom]

OK, we're settled into a park and we'll stay here a couple of weeks.
Thanks JC and eagle for the info. It's good to know that replacing a starter is fairly straight forward. When my head clears a bit, I'll go through the below shops and see what they can do.

Cary and Don, I don't know what I did to deserve this guy's help, but whatever it was, it must've been in a former life, lol. Lord knows it wasn't in this one
This guy was incredible. Unsolicited he came over and started to help me. And you know what a Detroit is like, look at it sideways and you're covered in oil. And so was this guy. I kept apologizing and offering to have him wash his hands at least, he said "Nah, this is how I usually look anyway, ask my wife!", lol.
I wish there was some way I could repay his kindness. I never even got the dude's name!

Anyway, so here are a couple of observations I'd like to get your thoughts on,

When I rear started it (first time I've done that) and then got back inside I noticed a couple of odd things

1) the tach did not work. Now we've had tach problems before, so I kinda blew it off and figured it was a loose wire or something.
2) there were two very faint lights lit up in the dash (near where the low oil light would be) that were suddenly on. I've never seen that before. The lights were very faint and almost imperceptible.
3) this was the one that really had me worried, the voltage output on the meter with the engine running has always be about 13.7. This time, however, it was showing 12.5!

I ignored them and continued going forward since nothing appeared to be affected and the engine was running smooth as ever.
Well, after we eventually got it started again (using front start this time), all of the above was gone. The tach worked like a charm, the lights were off as they should be, and the voltage was back to 13.7ish.
Does any of that make sense? What would rear starting it do to cause that? Obviously there's some sort of electrical short or something, but I can't see what it could be.

Any thoughts on that are appreciated.

Now the next question,
So the fix my good Samaritan suggested, how did that actually work? I assumed that when the trans is in neutral none of the drive elements are engaged, so how could rolling it have rotated the flywheel to release the bendix? I have little doubt that that is what fixed it. Because I was hammering on that sucker for damn near 3 hours trying to get it to start.
Rolling it a mere 6 inches forward, I was able to forward-start it, as we have been, and it lit right up, with hardly a couple of taps.  So I'm confused there as well and any thoughts there are also appreciated.

OK, I'm done, it's beer:30, and I need a couple, lol!
I'll start calling some shops around and see who can replace that starter and what their availability is.

Thanks again to those who offered guidance, help and advice. I sincerely appreciate it!

[Geom]

Ha Dave, Lee, and luvrbus,

Your posts came in before I finished posting my.

I'll check on a rebuilder and see. I've read some horror stories of shade-tree rebuilders, so I probably will stick with the Napa option if it's available.

Luvrbus, I'm not certain where the bolts are exactly, but we replaced the water tank under the bed, and I got curious and removed the stuff covering the access plate. I could see the starter beneath. I'm not certain, however, if the bolts are accessible. I can do that again later this week and see.

[Skykingrob]

Hey Geom
Where are you bedded down? I live south of Springfield on the way to Branson. May be able to give you some pointers/help if you are close.

Rob
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