Won't Start DD S-40

[luvrbus]

Does the series 40 have a oil reservoir and pump to supply the injectors or does it pickup only from the crank case the HEUI system has to have oil pressure for the injectors to work    

[Lostranger]

If there's no sticker, snap a picture of the ECM.

Will do at first light.

[azdieselman]

I recognize some of those code numbers. 333 is ICP not at expected. I'll have to look up the others in the morning.

I've not had to the pleasure of actually working on a DD badged version. My understanding was it's the same as a DT466E. I am more than familiar with that platform.

The HP reservoir is built into the gear housing. Pull the oil temp sensor and see if oil runs out. I was working towards this. You have to have LP oil to get HP oil. I would expect to see 45-60 psi cranking on the dash gauge.

You can crank the engine with the EOT sensor out and see if you get oil flow from the gear housing. Should be a fair amount.

Another thing to check is power to the IPR. You'll have B+ on one wire of the connector. The PCM provides a PWM ground on the other wire. The valve is normally open, If you lose power it will dump all HP oil to the pan. You can hotwire it directly for a few moments to see if it will start. It's not polarity sensitive, But it's a tight fit for alligator clips.

[Lostranger]

Here are numbers from the ECM plate:

1807457C1
5WK9
203/00
Nov 6/98
1807457C1-0217235

Sometime today I'll be able to get back to bus work. Not sure when. The chaos factor in our lives is unusually high at the moment.

Jim

[azdieselman]

I looked up those codes, You've pretty much got a code for every sensor.

I'd be looking closely at the battery connections. If this is equipped with Navistar's famous "cleanpower" harness, you will need to clean and polish the cable ends, check the fuse holders for burned connections and loose pin fit. These harnesses are troublesome, They have been revised several times, I cut and splice all the connectors on the trucks that I see, The intermittant stuff will make you crazy.  There may also be a connector under or near the starter, This can also cause ECM power issues.

[moosemanusa]

^^ same as this guy  "

Speaking from DDEC IV problems.. low battery voltage caused all type of problems and reporting sensors were down..

Didnt help the ECM had problems either..

Check the Battery state.. if ok, remove the ECM and take it to a specialist and ask them to give a diagnostic report on it.  Then if you have time on your side, use an internet ECM rebuild place (much cheaper usually).

Same day ECM repair for our ECM was 950.. but a week's service was half that cost..

[LuckyChow]

When my DDEC IV ECM went out last year, I got several codes, all seemingly unrelated. 

[Lostranger]

I looked up those codes, You've pretty much got a code for every sensor.

I'd be looking closely at the battery connections. If this is equipped with Navistar's famous "cleanpower" harness, you will need to clean and polish the cable ends, check the fuse holders for burned connections and loose pin fit. These harnesses are troublesome, They have been revised several times, I cut and splice all the connectors on the trucks that I see, The intermittant stuff will make you crazy.  There may also be a connector under or near the starter, This can also cause ECM power issues.

Navistar had nothing to do with building the Gillig, but that doesn't mean that I don't have voltage issues. We'll try cleaning and tightening battery cables along the way. Batteries are most of 40 feet from the engine. We'll also check fuse holders and other connectors. I'll especially check the feed to the ECM.

Should I pull the ECM and have it checked? My check ball and washer are in at Rush International Truck. They could probably run that diagnostic. I'll ask them today.

Jim

[moosemanusa]

I would if I were you.. after wasting a 2400 mile round trip and other expenses my problem was down to a low voltage issue with the ECM!

Every code you could think off was flashing up...

If I had just done that on Day 1... (Hindsight is great eh)

[LuckyChow]

I think I'd check the voltage at the ECM first.  If it's really low, you may have found your problem. 

[azdieselman]

The ECM is the last place I would go.  Knowing what I do about these engines and the powers and grounds, I'd check and clean every one first. Navistar may well have supplied the engine power feed through DD to Gillig.
The ECM's are pretty durable, Failures happen, But I wouldn't say it's common.  IDM's, Slightly more. Usually have injector issues also.

[luvrbus]

The school buses here when the batteries get below 10.5 the IDM relay locks the power out could be the batteries were low and cooked the relay ? I have never seen a bad ECM here on the RV's or school buses with the 466 engine,my 7.3 would eat relays

[Lostranger]

Just got back from Rush Truck Center. Got the new check ball and gasket. Ball is yellow.

Rush service manager says they cannot check the ECM unless it's on the vehicle. They're 50 miles away, so that ain't happening. Our plan for today is to start at the ECM power connector and work back (forward, actually) to the battery compartment, cleaning and tightening. I realize that I've had similar power supply issues to both the starter and the large electrical panel at the R/R wheel well. A dirty, loose or corroded power connection or ground could easily explain the way this problem developed.

Do I have a way of clearing codes without a scan tool? Can anyone recommend a scan tool option that does not require selling one of the grandchildren? I have an ethernet port and some sort of older computer-style port. No OBD that I've seen.

Jim

[moosemanusa]

Jim,

--Again speaking from DDEC Experience only----

If the voltage drops below 9.5 the ECM will not power up..

They absolutely require a good ground!

Now you've just mentioned about past electrical problems, I would agree this is were you want to start..

An ECM shop can bench tech as they're usually just a few guys in a small shop that people send in the ECM's..

Let me try and see what that ECM is from your past posts..

[luvrbus]

There has to be someone making a data link cable that goes from 6 or 9 pins to the Atria plug so you could read that engine with a OBD II.Fords with the 7.3 are read with a OBD it's the same system