MCI-9 Road Light Relay ?????

[Kwajdiver]

Where is the Road Light Relay located.  It is NOT( and nor has it every been) in the Front Juntion Box as shown in the MCI-9 Manual, page 7-62.

The side light/marker lights are not working.  I have power across the 15 amp Marker Light breaker.

The side turn signals work fine.

Thanks for the help....

Bill

[DrivingMissLazy]

If you have power across the breaker, then the breaker is defective. You should only have power from each side of the breaker to ground, not across it.
Richard

Where is the Road Light Relay located.  It is NOT( and nor has it every been) in the Front Juntion Box as shown in the MCI-9 Manual, page 7-62.

The side light/marker lights are not working.  I have power across the 15 amp Marker Light breaker.

The side turn signals work fine.

Thanks for the help....

Bill

[Kwajdiver]

Richard,

You are correct,,,,, sorry,  I have voltage, breaker to ground.

Bill

[Hartley]

My diagram shows the "road lights" relay is dashed around it. which means you may or may not have that option.

My MC9 does not have a road lights relay. it is wired direct through the toggle switch for ID Lamps
and a second leg from the HeadLamp switch.

A guess would be that you have a bad toggle switch or loose wire in the side panel. Or maybe the side panel has
lost it's ground to chassis. Mine did and I hade to re-ground the aluminum panel to the frame with a # 10 wire
to get my dash lights and relays to behave.

If there is a relay it should be in the side panel and available from outside access cover.

[NJT5047]

The tail light/clearance light relay for my MC9 (87 ex-NJT) is in the LH lower electrical compartment.  Right beneath the horn relay.  It controls the pax interior, isle, tail, dash, driver, step, and clearance lights. 
As you state, there are several optional formats...but the lower section of the electrical junction box is where the "road light" lighting relay is located. 
Mine is definitely located below the horn relay. 
It is not located in the upper enclosure...it is visible once the exterior door is open.   
It's possible that the NJT layout is different from other MC9s...they had their way of doing things!
Let me know if it would help and I'll go down tomorrow and see exactly what it looks like.  I know it has prox 8 wires going to it. Plus the two bus bar leads.   
JR

[Tony LEE]

My headlight relays are below the front breaker panel == alongside the driver's water valve, but this may not be standard.

While on the subject of hidden relays, my MC8 has a couple of relays buried under the instrument panel between the steering column and the front of the bus. Anyone know what they do -- or even if they are standard?

Tony

[NJT5047]

Bill, I see you're describing the marker lights...does any other lighting work?  Headlights, tail lights?  Dash lights coming on? 
The headlights have a separate relay.  I assume that these are working?
More details.   
The sidelight turn signals are off of a separate circuit. 
If you attach 24V lead to any clearance light center contact (not the ground contact), you should be able to backfeed a signal and follow the wires in the FJB.
I'll let you know what the relay looks like tomorrow.  Someone may have modified something..or stolen the relay.  It's a nice heavy thing.
Have your ID lights ever worked?
JR

[Kwajdiver]

Guys,

I have a manual, I do not have a relay mounted under the horn relay.  However, I do have a round thing with three connecters floating around, not sure what that is, it's round and heavy.

Headlights, turn signal, dash lights, brake lights, all work.  I have a voltage drop to the headlights, but that is a different problem. Headlights are only getting 8 volts to them, but I'm working on that.

The manual shows a connections after the relay, that I don't have.  I need a check point after the panel mounted switch. There must be something else, before the lights.

Bill

[NJT5047]

I took a look today at my marker light relay....just as I thought, it's immediately beneath the horn relay...lower frontmost in FEB.  Must be an NJT special...big expensive looking sucker. 
However, the manual that I have also shows an MC9 system without the relay.  Have you applied 24V to terminal 15 in the FJB?   That's the terminal that is directly energized by the clearance light switch.  If this terminal is hot, and I believe it is due to the dash lights working, the wiring in the immediate area of stud 15 is likely faulty.   Appears the dash lights also are powered by the #15 stud so you may have another issue.   If your dash lights are working, some of the system is operating.  The dash lighting is part of the marker light circuit. 
Has any wiring been cut out of the front of the coach during the conversion?   The upper center light wires are famous for being inadvertantly removed. 
This wouldn't explain the total lack of marker lighting. 
My guess is that the problem is inside the electrical compartment, upper section, related to the wiring on term 15.  Or all your marker lights are burned out.
There is also a terminal in the RJB, #3 that is the rear marker and tail light  stud.  It gets power from the FJB stud 15. 
Hope your bus hasn't be "rewired" to suit (or solve) some other problem.
You've probably figured this out, but the marker light wire # is 15 Red/Blue.  That should be visible in the upper electrical compartment.  That's the lead that feeds the marker lights.  Straight off term 15 up to the front cap. 
does your bus have aftermarket caps on it?  May be missing grounds (white wire) or some such thing. 
Did your marker lights work when you bought the coach?  If they did, what has been done inside the electrical box since?   If they didn't work,  well....    As the DDEC manual sez, "you have made a diagnostic error, recheck" 
You are also probably aware, but both front and rear marker light leads split off at term 15 in the FJB...so the problem must be very close to that terminal, or between said terminal and the switch.  Center marker lights are supplied from the front markers.  Lower side markers are turn signals only. 

JR

[Kwajdiver]

JR,

Yes, they did work.  I have been replacing sockets on the bottom lights. Guess I started to replace bulbs when I thought the bulbs were the problem, then found the sockets were in bad shape, now the sockets are new, bulbs are new, and no lights.  Turn signals work, so I know the sockets and bulbs are good.

I will look around term #15 and start from there.

Thanks for the hint.

Bill

[NJT5047]

There are no bulbs or sockets that share turn signal functions.  The bulbs in the turn signals are dual filament/dual contact, but they have only one function...example: front turn signals and side marker turn signals.   Only tail, tag and upper marker lights are on the marker light circuit.  TBOMK, none of these are dual function sockets.
The lower side lights are not maker lights...they are turn signals only.   
The turn sig bulbs are oddities...be sure and replace the TS bulbs with the correct bulb number...unless the system has been  modified.  The dual filament turn sig bulbs ground thru the contacts and are not grounded thru the base.   OEM marker lights are also grounded thru the contacts.   
The above assumes that your bus has OEM style lighting.  Aftermarket lighting may be otherwise.
Best, JR

[Kwajdiver]

JR.

JUMPBACK,,,,,,,,,   Okay, the bottom four lights, two on each side of the bus........THEY ARE TURN SIGNAL ONLY........??  If this is the case, then they work.....  For legal reasons, don't I need some type of lights on the side (bottom) of the coach.......

I have eight turn signals, two on the front, two on each side and two on the rear.  Baby they will see me turning.....

Don't think my upper lights are more than a bulb problem.

Sinking Fast and Still in Little Rock,

Bill

[NJT5047]

Yep.  I'm pretty sure the lower side lights are turn signals only.  When looking at the schematic, what they are calling "side marker lights" are the two upper sides on each end (2 each).   The front and rear center 5 are referenced as "clearance lights."  The upper center sides are called "intermediate" marker lights. 
Someone could have installed working lower side lights...but that ain't at all likely.  The dual filaments will screw with your mind.  Use the numbers listed in the manual for replacement bulbs...they are "$pecial."      Same is true of your front turn signal bulbs.  They are not similar to automobile lights. 
TTBOMK, there are no "dual filament" "dual circuit" bulbs (with exception of the headlights) on a bus.  All bulbs for road lights are single circuit, yet may have two filaments.  Failsafe I reckon?  This is what I've seen on MC9s.  Not familiar with any other coach.   
You should have an amber reflector on each front side corner, two ambers in the center of the side bay doors, and two red reflectors on the rear side corners.  That's it. 
I believe trailers must have working lower marker lights. 
If you wish to proof the side lights, remove a bulb and put an ohmeter across the contacts.  Bet you find both filaments are connected.  Only one circuit will be apparent. 
Be very careful if you attempt to remove one of those lower side lights.  The wiring is easy to damage and hard to repair.
Best, JR

[Kwajdiver]

JR,

Thanks for all the input, looks like I'm in good shape, at last.

Now the headlight problem.......

I don't have the manual in front of me.  On the headlight relay located in the FJB, I need to know what voltages you have on a couple of the pins.  Need my manual to ask what pins.   I'm only getting 8 volts to my lower bean highlights.    Haven't gotten very far into the trouble shooting. 

Bill

[NJT5047]

That don't sound like quite enough voltage.  Keep in mind that there are two headlight circuit relays.  The forward unit is the 24V relay, and the next one to the rear is the 12V relay.  They are both controlled by 24V.
If one of your headlights burn out, the 12V feed system will supply voltage to the remaining light.  A set of diodes prevent backfeeding.
Also keep in mind that the headlights are wired in series (if you still have the 24V system supplying 12V headlights). 
This is a complicated system.  I'll have to get the book out once you form a question on a particular pin....
Are your batteries up?  You may be reading the low center tap voltage. 
Center tap should be 12V, but maybe the batts are down. 
Waiting for your question! 
Best, JR