Curtains or plastic

[Geom]

OK, so as the first "polar vortex" descends upon a good portion of the US, we are having to learn how to overwinter in our bus, as a trial by fire. Not wanting to spend a not-so-small fortune, just to keep it warm this winter, I'd like to get some advice from cold weather folks on how they maintain comfortable temps and if they have any tips or tricks for insulation.
Below is a list of a few things I'm going to work on this week to try and reduce heat loss.

0) Heat wrapped water hose

1) Install 1" foam board insulation on the inside of the bay doors. I'm uncertain how that'll be accomplished, but I have some ideas. I'd initially considered spraying foam-insulation inside the bay doors (there's an empty space between the inner and outer wall of the doors), but that seemed rather permanent and I didn't want to commit to that just yet. Plus it might end up looking like a## and I'd like to avoid too many of those type solutions.

2) Install a thermostatically controlled mini-heater in the tank bay to keep from creating poopsicles. That should be in this week. That should also help warm the floor from below.

3) Mount a curtain across the front of the bus, essentially isolating the cockpit and front stairs from the main living area.

4) Inside, we have big single-pane windows. While they're great for creating an open surround view space, they're terrible at keeping the cold out and heat in. So I was considering creating a second pane using (very clear) heavy plastic sheeting, mounted on a frame. I wanted something that can be easily removed and reused (I hate waste). The stick on (and blow-dry taught) type stuff was neither removable or reusable, on top of being ridiculously wasteful.

4a) Sitting around today and reassessing my options, however, I'm curious if I'm over engineering that last one. Would good solid curtains just inside the windows work as well? My thought with the plastic sheeting was to create an insulating dead-airspace and cut out drafts. Would a well fit curtain accomplish the same?

Anyway, as always, your thoughts and any advice are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
George

[harleyman_1000]

  My bus has 1 1/2" foam board glued to my bay door and painted black. I have heard of people using bubble wrap in their windows and roof vents, and they say they reuse them every year. I believe this would still allow some cold drafts? If it were me I would buy the window treatments that you use a blow dryer with. These eliminate cold air drafts and more than pay for themselves in heating savings. You also can see outside very clearly when wanted.

[Utahclaimjumper]

  Baled straw around the the bus to provide "skirting" works really well to reduce cooling thru the floor.>>>Dan

[sparkplug188]

Thick thermal curtains will make a world of difference on single pane windows when installed correctly.  The problem with thermal curtains is convection currents pulling warm air behind the curtains and dumping cold air out the bottom.  They need to be installed as close to the window as possible with some sort of framed channel covering the top, bottom, and sides of the curtains.  Magnetic strips around the edges of the curtains will also work, but looks bad IMO.  I like the wavy, free hanging look over the stretched tight look.

Another big heat loss area is roof vents and sky lights.  Make foam pillows that press fit into those openings.

The best way to find air leaks is to feel for cold air drafts when it is very cold and windy outside.  Last winter if got down to 0F here.  I frantically filled all the leaks with spray foam.  Now the air conditioner works twice as well in the summer.  

[solodon]

I've been living in a 5th wheel camper while doing my conversion.  Made it through last winter just fine.  The biggest improvement was the window film.  I didn't realize just how much cold was getting in until I did the windows.  Worked great and just finished with the next install for this winter, and it's not expensive at all.  Then I wrapped the bottom with reflective wrap, and 1 inch thick iso-board as skirting to keep air from going under the trailer.  Used 2 1500 watt electric heaters until it got below 0 then added a Mr. Heater single surface heater to help.  When ever above 10 degrees it was fine and didn't have to heat all day either.  HTH

[solodon]

And don't forget the door seals, and used insulation board cut to fit in the vents.  I may put some of the window film over those this winter also but seems if they leak it's heat going out and it would be minimal and not too bad a thing for air exchange.

[gumpy]

Curious where in the country you are trying to overwinter in your bus. Makes a big difference. It's much easier to overwinter in Texas or California than it is in Wyoming.

[Geom]

Thanks all for the great tips and advice.

Instead of foamboard I picked up some reflective duct insulation. It looks like heavy duty bubble wrap with thick reflective sheeting on both sides. By itself it has an r-value of 3. Foamboard was r4 @1". This stuff will be much easier to install since I can just tape it to the bay door and it will easily flex in the middle where the doors fold over. I'm also thinking if I tape it well enough I might enclose that dead air space between the front and back of the bay door walls; which might raise the r-value to a 7 or 8, on par with 1 1/2" foamboard.  I may yet change my mind and use foamboard anyway, but we'll see how well this'll work.

We really only have one vent. I'll look into getting a foam pillow for it.

I wonder if I need to do anything with the AC vents?

I eventually want to build a skirt out of the same material I bought today, but for now that'll be a later project. I have heard that skirting makes a world of difference though, so it might get promoted to a higher place on "the list".

We looked at curtains today. My biggest problem with curtains is that they will block out light and leave the place seeming rather gloomy in an already gloomy season.
I had not, at all, considered the convective air movement around the curtain. That's a very good point, and seemingly a + in the plastic sheeting column; as that would be completely enclosed.

Currently I use an IR gun and (rather obsessively) walk around the inside of the bus looking for cold spots.
It's definitely the windows and floors that are the worst/coldest. So that's why I'm attacking the bays and windows first.
The walls themselves are actually spray-foam insulated and hold temps pretty well.

We currently use 2 1500w heaters. They work pretty well and we're able to keep the place pretty warm down to the 30s with just one of them on high or two on low. But that's still 1.5KWH. And if we needed to run them both, that'd be 3KWH. Times 24 hours a day by 30 days @~15c/KWH, that adds up quick. It's not a huge deal if the RV park isn't metered, but a lot of places meter if you're staying by the month.

I did also pick up some rubber strips for the door to seal around that.

We're in St Louis right now and we'll be heading back to South Central Mo in a month or two.

Thanks again for the info,
George

[daddyoften]

Hey Gumpy! Some of us here in Wyoming resemble that comment! ;-) and yes, Wyoming is a real place. Lol

[PP]

George, no matter how well you insulate or put up heavy curtains, you have to have air circulation or you will be fighting moisture and condensation that can do all kinds of damage, including rust. We heat with a combination of propane catalytic and electric when available. We have to keep a vent open in the kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom or all the windows will be wringing wet or frozen solid in the morning. We also have the heat wrap on the hose, only dump when the tanks are near full (don't leave them open to freeze up or you won't be able to drain your waste tanks at all) and a thermostatically controlled heater to protect the water filter system and holding tanks. We've been through quite a few cold winters and know what needs to be done out of necessity.
Will

[Lin]

For our screens, we use a ribbon of velcro mounted to the window frame and the screen fabric.  I suppose you could do the same thing with clear plastic sheeting around your windows.  This would be reusable.  I do not think the seal would be as good as the heat shrink, but should be an improvement over nothing.  It would let in light, but the view to the outside would probably be a bit distorted.

[belfert]

  Baled straw around the the bus to provide "skirting" works really well to reduce cooling thru the floor.>>>Dan

Downside here is all the local mice will nest in the straw.  A number of folks who have tried this with lake cabins and such say they wouldn't do it again due to mice and other rodents.

[eagle19952]

+ at-least 2+1/2 ...

Downside here is all the local mice will nest in the straw.  A number of folks who have tried this with lake cabins and such say they wouldn't do it again due to mice and other rodents.

[Scott & Heather]

^ ditto on the mice. Don't do it. We have spent a few winters in our bus in Michigan. Last winter we survived negative 20 degree temps and several feet of snow. Definitely insulate your water line and include heat tape and insulate your spigot. Definitely use the window shrink film you stick on and then use a hair dryer to shrink it tight and crystal clear. Definitely do this. If you don't run heaters in your bays (all of them) your floors will be freezing cold. Oh, and the condensation thing....its a big deal and you will be fighting it all winter...it will cause ice dams at the bottom of your windows and in our case froze our front door shut and we literally had to bust out. But winters in a bus are fun and cozy. You'll love it if you're anything like us. But honestly, I'm glad we are headed south this winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Clumsy fingers may contribute to mistakes.

[gumpy]

Hey Gumpy! Some of us here in Wyoming resemble that comment! ;-) and yes, Wyoming is a real place. Lol

Yeah, I'm vaguely familiar with Wyoming.

Where in Wyoming are you located (i.e. what do you consider "Central Wyoming")?