Fresno Crowns

[TomC]

We're in the WalMart in Fresno and drove by a school bus yard. They surprisingly had a whole fleet (at least 15 buses) of the last version of rear engine Crown school buses. What surprised me about this, is most of these buses had 6V-92TA's in them-unless they have been reengined, they are out dated as to smog laws.
Anyone in the Fresno area know? Good Luck, TomC

[Seangie]

RJ lives right there...I'd be surprised if he didn't know everything about them.

-Sean

[RobSedona]

I thought is was  a Methanol diesel engine made by  Detroit Diesel 6v92?

[Iceni John]

They are the Super II series of Crowns, made from 1989 to until Crown was closed in 1991.   I have one of them.   Yes, Fresno's now have 6V92TAC engines in them, but some Super IIs were originally fitted with methanol-burning 6V92s as part of the California Energy Commission Phase 1 introduction of clean-air school buses.   The methanol engines didn't last long  -  I heard that they had a tendency to bend con rods, among other problems.   The buses originally with methanol engines have a fuel cooler on the driver's side ahead of the rear wheels, with a cover that makes it look like an A/C unit, or even like the original Crowns' side-mounted radiator.   A few Super IIs had Cat 3208T engines, even though they weren't listed as an option by Crown, and some had Cummins CT or CTA 8.3.   They were built in 36', 38' and 40' lengths, some with full air suspension (Zachers in Harbor City is selling some of those ones now), some with air bags on the rear only, and some with leaf-spring suspension like mine.   Like any Crown, they were basically built to order, so no two are alike  -  my bus was Mid-Placer no.37, and its sister bus no.35 was on Craigslist a year or so ago, but mine and 35 differ in several minor details, even though they were the same build!   I actually have no.35's complete factory build book and parts list showing every individual part's item number, even down to each rib and body panel and nut and bolt!

Several Central Valley districts are still running them, as is Rialto and maybe a few left in Los Angeles, but the 6V92 buses' days are numbered because of CARB rulings.   I now have the only one in Orange County after JFK in Santa Ana sold theirs, so it's rarer than a Bugatti Veyron (I've seen two of them in Newport Beach alone!), and it's the only Super II being seriously converted that I know of.   Locutus in WA state has a 36' with a 3208T, but he's not got very far with his conversion.   Alliance Transportation in Ontario has two 38' with Cummins CTA 8.3, a 40' with a Cat (it's slow!), and one like mine, so they have as good a selection as anyone in SoCal of the different lengths and engines.   (They also have a few Gillig Phantom school buses with 6V92s, another neat bus.)   There's even one in Vancouver Canada painted with a garish Union Jack which does city tours, along with a similarly-painted older Gillig pusher.

I think of my bus as a poor man's MC9  -  it has the same engine and transmission, so it drives more like a Greyhound bus than your typical skoolie.   Even keeping its big underfloor baggage bin for storage, I've managed to also fit under the floor two 110-gal fresh water tanks, a 115-gal grey tank, a 65-gal poo tank, slide-out trays for eight house batteries and two propane cylinders and an emergencies-only generator, an electric air compressor, and all the manifolds/pumps/filters/etc for the water and gas.   This makes it a good candidate for conversion  -  all the legendary Crown quality, but without that pesky pancake engine taking up all the prime real estate under the floor!

John

Oh yes, I almost forgot  -  there were even some mid-engine Super IIs with 6-71T engines, some in Northern California and I think LA also had a few, and at least one of them even had a Spicer ten-speed transmission!    

[RJ]

Tom -

Were you at the new Super WallyWorld on Herndon Ave in Clovis, headed to Shaver/Huntington?  Heck, you were just a few blocks from me!

Anyway, if that's where you were, what you saw was Clovis Unified's yard, and yes, they still have a bunch of operational Crowns - some 40' three-axle Twinkies, and a bunch of 40' Super IIs.

All the S-IIs were originally methanol, and when that disaster was over, the district got CARB to pay for repowering with 6V92TACs.  All S-IIs also have Allison automatics.  Not sure, but I think the engines are DDEC w/ ATEC Allisons.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Boomer]

So the district is going to double dip?  First for a repower, then to get rid of the 2 stroke bus?  Only in CA, lol.  Another tax payer rip off.

[Iceni John]

So the district is going to double dip?  First for a repower, then to get rid of the 2 stroke bus?  Only in CA, lol.  Another tax payer rip off.

It's CARB that's ripping off the Californian tax-payers, not the school districts (OK, not so much . . .)   You think those methanol engines were bad  -  the CEC also tried some natural-gas Blue Birds powered by Tecogen Tecdrive 7000 engines that were way worse than the methadone Super IIs.   CARB is now supporting the present orgy of destruction that will see plenty of perfectly-good older buses crushed for no other reason than they have 2-stroke engines, then they can subsidize school districts to buy lots of replacement crappy ten-year-life disposabuses instead.   How much energy and resources are needed to constantly make and then crush buses, compared to repowering existing buses that can last for decades?   Would Kafka even understand this lunacy?

End of rant.

John, lucky to have a Crown at all    

[luvrbus]

Yep good old CARB I have a friend that owns Acme Truck Parts in Stockton sad to see all the late model engines like a ISX15 Cummins ,the series 60 and 50 and Cat engines that Carb orders holes cut in the blocks so they can no longer be used
Strange part is they never do it on the old 2 strokes engines what the hell is the deal with Carb Acme has to have a Carb rep come and test each engine on a dyno before he can sell one in state or out of state strange bunch of ducks IMO

[Iceni John]

CARB, and all its associated agencies such as the various AQMDs up and down the state, consist of unelected bureaucrats whose primary responsibility is to ensure they all have jobs for life.   Serving the public is a strange and alien concept to them.   They have been given power through legislation, so they can do whatever they want A) without any real oversight or public scrutiny (so much for checks and balances), and B) with the full weight of the law behind them.   In my language there's a word for that  -  Tyranny.   Another example of unfettered government run amok.

So, buy Crowns now before they're all turned into rebar and soda cans.

John

[dukegrad98]

CARB should really only be a problem for people still fighting to live in the once-great state of California.  The problem is, none of the manufacturers want to make special version junk just for you guys out there.  So it has bled over, and the rest of us get stuck with all the CARB-compliant crap, too!

Cheers, John
(Former resident of La Jolla and Menlo Park)

[TomC]

I was at the WalMart on Shaw. Don Fairchild has cleaned up 2 strokers to Tier 2 and could go to Tier 3. If the 2 strokers were common rail fuel injected, Don believes they could be Tier 4 with after treatment. Strange how the rail roads are still using the 710 series of EMD (now owned by Caterpillar) and the most fuel efficient engine in the world is a 2 stroke-extremely large engine that turns 82rpm with a 135" stroke (yes that's over 11ft!). Good Luck, TomC

[HB of CJ]

I sadly sold my 1974 Crown 10 wheeler, (VIN 37317) when it became apparent that it was beyond my physical ability at that time to possess and do a cool RV conversion with.  They are expensive just to own and NOT roll a wheel with.  Lots of static monthly expenses come to mind.  Kinda like a big sail boat or a small airplane.

But....since now I am older and better physically, I for one would love to do another Crown RV Bus Conversion attempt.  I think the remaining Crown Type 1 "Twinkee" type Crowns, (good nickname by the way!) will quickly be sold off.  Since I live in SW Oregon, all I would need is a "get out of Dodge by sundown" one way trip permit?

Dunno fur sures.  It would NOT surprise me to have C.A.R.B. issue another mandate that would prohibit individuals like me from buying an older Crown schoolie and quickly moving it out of state.  I bet at auction these perfectly good running, (some in excellent shape...mine was) will then be forced to make a date with the crusher.  Sad.

HB of CJ (old coot)

[luvrbus]

I don't know how CA works, the Needles School Dist sold off their Crowns some were tandem drives and some were single axle drives, only scrap dealers were allowed to bid and they had to sign a users end agreement meaning they were to be scraped not much else could be done the school district would not relinquish the titles so 6 were crushed

[Iceni John]

HB,
If a school district gets grant money from CARB to replace their old bus with a new clean-fuel or low-emission bus, then the old bus MUST be destroyed.   CARB will not accept it being sold for private use or conversion, or for non-school use (e.g. as a church bus), or for out-of-state or foreign use, or even to be parted out.   It has to go to the crusher as an intact road-legal bus.   The only way to buy Crowns and Gilligs now is from either school districts that are not replacing them with grant-subsidized new buses (that's how I got mine), or from private school transportation companies who are selling their buses because they don't need them any longer.   There are always some coming up for sale on eBay and Craigslist, but their prices have risen over the last year or so.   Gone are the days of a $1500 Crown that still has many decades of private life in it.   You will still find nice old tandems, but they're mostly now in the $5000-plus range.   It's becoming a seller's market  -  demand and interest are growing (I think), but the supply is dwindling.

Hurry hurry while stocks last.

John

[HB of CJ]

Only to a crusher?  Can the crusher be out of state?  Would the CA DMV issue a one way trip permit for a in CA Crown to be driven out of state with the idea that it would be going.....straight to the OR crusher?  My feeble mind boggles.

I have a buddy who is a licensed auto re cycler.  Even has that portable, (and big) auto crusher.  I have a kinda friend who works for the OR DMV.  Very nice lady.  Been there for years.  She helped me get my RV tags for the old Crown.

But...no title.  Would that be a problem?  I will ask her.  Or the other way would be to do like you already said and go to an auction where the Crown is NOT mandated to go straight to the gallows.  About $1500 vs who knows how much.

Interesting set of problems.  HB of CJ (old coot)   We have up here in SW OR what is called a "branded title".  Means the vehicle was totaled out.  A big business up here is repairing and placing such back on the road CHEAP.  Retitled.

Our august County has no automotive inspection program at all.  Also no state mandated smog inspection program either.  No county infrastructure.  Both neighboring Counties do.  We do not.  The game may be afoot!