Help wanted, Surveyor Mathemetician Road Builder

eagle19952 · May 22, 2014, 06:31:35 PM

Here's my problem.
When I built my house I lived at the end of a dirt road...
One day the county (borough in Alaska) decided to connect two dirt roads and pave it to boot.
So my driveway which was a 2-3% grade turned into a 13.03% grade.
Having (like a dumbass) signed a TCP I basically eF'd myself. The way they built the road, of course as to make a cut and fill it... Well 20 years later the road is heavily traveled and was under built and chip sealed to boot a number of times.
So 2014 and they are going to cut it deeper AND drop the surface two feet....
I had a dozer and a small loader/hoe and was going to reduce the grade myself...but the phone company gave me hell about lowering their service...
Well this time it ain't so easy...
My argument with the county is that they eF'd once but not twice.
leaving my apron/approach as is and lowering the road is not going to happen.
So far they have agreed to reduce the grade to "less than 10%..." well geewizz.
They have said that they can do this by starting a cut 70 feet into my driveway.
IF I can convince them to come in more, how far in would I need to start to make a comfort approach for the Eagle ?
What % of grade would you want.
From the edge of the road to the current top of the grade is only about a car length from the center it is noted in the picture.
I can hardly get in my driveway from the property side lane.
So having been too long away from trigonometry how far back do I need to convince them to go ?
Any help/thoughts appreciated

gumpy · May 23, 2014, 05:53:52 AM

Determining this will depend on what the elevation difference is between the road bed and the high point in your driveway.

I would go for no more than 6 or 7% grade.

For instance, if you have an 18 foot elevation difference at 180 feet from the roadbed, you would have slope of 10%. Slope = Rise / Run or 18 / 180 = 0.1 = 10%

If your elevation difference is only 9 feet that equates to a slope of 9 / 180 = 0.05, or 5%.

You can adjust the equation for your exact elevation difference or for a slope as necessary.

Clear as mud?

bevans6 · May 23, 2014, 06:25:18 AM

So the slope is just rise over run, so the math is easy. Do you have a way to accurately determine the elevation difference? Don't forget that you will be starting your rise at the edge of the roadway, which is probably going to be about a foot lower than the center of the road, allowing for road crown and the drop of the shoulder of the road for drainage. What is the deal with the phone company? Why do they care about your driveway?

eagle19952 · May 23, 2014, 07:53:35 AM

Bevan, I guess they care because they asked me for permission TCP (Temporary Construction Permit) and they can't make an existing situation worse, culverts and drainage etc. Although the culvert is in the easement they make you own it and maintain it. If they mangle it they replace it.
Oh, on the phone company....their DSL, Phone and TV cables cross my driveway and are only 8-10 inches deep. Unfortunately (the pictures don't show it) but there is a DSL "hut" with television distribution on the lot located at the SE corner of my property. Their utility runs in both directions. Well they wanted me to give them a $1 lifetime lease on the NE corner of my property, which I would have agreed to IF they lowered their utility enough so I could repair my driveway. OR they could repair it and use it to access their facility. OR they could build me a second driveway access that we would share to the NE side of my house where I have a 2 car garage... They said no so I said no. They had to buy the lot at my SE corner. and said I could PAY to have the line lowered...
Now the county has to pay to "protect" the utility in the easement during construction AND the project coordinator is willing to be cooperative...to a point.
My argument is they (the county) should have made done it right the first time.

Gumpy, Thanks ! Now it as clear as water. Thank-you very much. In my temporary turmoil I was unable to settle the turbidity, couldn't see the forest for the trees etc.

So this drawing (post below)says, (basing the grade originally at 13.3%) the elevation that determined that grade is 7 feet.

If they lower the road surface 2 feet at new construction then my new elevation will be 9 feet from the crown line of the road and quite likely 10 feet from the edge, correct ??
So, (as pictured) 180' minus the lane width leaves = 150'
10'/150' = .06 or 6%.....if it's 10'/180' = .05 or 5%
I can live with 6% . Remember I HAD 2-3%.

Am I looking at this correctly ?...

I guess when I get PO'd at a situation I lose my thinking cap....
Thanks for pointing me on the trail, now I can at least talk to the project coordinator some what intelligently...

bevans6 · May 23, 2014, 01:25:40 PM

8" - 10" buried cable in Alaska is nuts, when I was in the fiber business we had to bury below the frost line which was 4' in Toronto. We had machines that could bury that deep at walking speed. Best of luck, I would focus on being positive and forward looking, only bring up the past in the law suit... I hate when I have to act that way, I am far more likely to list everything they ever did to me...

Brian

eagle19952 · May 23, 2014, 01:55:59 PM

I would have to be a WHOLE lot more distressed to write a check to a lawyer....

Not in my nature.
Now.....going oops...was that your cable I just dug/tore up is....

If I call for a line locate and it's actually on my property what happens ?
Maybe I can charge rent.
I think the gal who is the right of way coordinator is going to make this right...twenty years ago her department didn't exist. I guess people with deeper pockets than me caused the county to see that working with the abutters was cheaper.

luvrbus · May 23, 2014, 02:05:31 PM

In the civil world of road building the % of grade is based on 100ft a 13.30% grade would be 6.65 ft difference in elevation at 50 ft so you are looking at 9.31 ft elevation change in 70 ft if my math is correct

eagle19952 · May 23, 2014, 02:23:47 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on May 23, 2014, 02:05:31 PM
In the civil world of road building the % of grade is based on 100ft a 13.3% grade would be 6.65 ft difference in elevation at 50 ft so you are looking at 9.31 ft elevation change in 70 ft if my math is correct

You are very close...if I stood on the C/L of the road today I cannot see the surface of my driveway if I stand on the running board of my car...I can.
From the edge of the road to the crest of the driveway is right at 41'
I used this website to measure as I am 5000 miles away. just key in your address and you can make measurements by moving the markers around and using the obstruction option to measure...kind of a neat deal.
http://www.dishpointer.com/

luvrbus · May 23, 2014, 02:45:17 PM

Figuring @ 13.30 % your elevation change will be 0.133 per ft

good luck

Cary and Don · May 23, 2014, 04:31:41 PM

We had a very similar problem with our driveway and the Eagle. Not knowing how to do the math we made a mock up of the under carriage of the bus. A rope the length of the bus attached to a stake at each end the height the body is off the ground. In our case thirteen inches. Then we placed plumb bobbs at the wheel locations, also 13 inches. Then we could walk the rope up the drive way, keeping the "wheels" on the ground and watching to see where the front and rear bottomed out.

Our driveway is a good 10% up from the road. We could only do so much change to it so we still have to plank about three feet out into the road up to and over a curb to our driveway. We clear the road by about three inches.

Don and Cary