crown coach

[shelled]

Jon, as Tom implies, the bus you choose is a canvas -- a starting point -- that reflects an individuals choices.  I, for one have had enough experience with computer obsolescence (no matter whether a PC on an engine/transmission controller) that I want nothing do do with a Series 60 engine.  My criteria are very different than yours by reason of hard earned experience.  Please respect the fact that other folks do not have the same priorities as you.

edward

[Jon]

Edward. I get it. I really do and tried to indicate that by saying how my 50 Ford is going to end up as a new car with a modern chassis, running gear, and all the character of a 64 year old car while embracing the brakes, steering and handling of today's cars.

Had I not wanted it as a toad that car would have remained original because it was fun running it on weekends to get a shake or burger. I just couldn't bring myself to consider that old technology capable of our interstate speeds or for anything more than something for local driving.

Where I get concerned is very few of the older buses are bought to be restored, but because they are cheap. Then the new owner gets that dose of reality about the cost of maintaining a bus being the same on an old one as it is on a new one. So the coach either becomes a never ending project with no trips (assuming it will run and drive) being without the drama of roadside repairs and a stream of posts on this and other sites seeking rare parts or even new engines. Sometimes it is just better to accept that some coaches are better off being recycled or at least not used as one would use a conventional motor home with modern and reliable underpinnings.

I admit the computerization of coaches is scary and there is a great comfort in dealing with more basic coaches and engines. I get excited when I see the skills and quality of work of some folks on these forums. The work some of these folks are doing is nothing less than spectacular. But I am not being disrespectful of anyone's choices regarding restoration or home building but I am expressing an opinion that some stuff such as a junk yard full of 60 year old buses or a derelict sitting in someones yard for 20 years is not much more than metal waiting to be recycled.

[CrabbyMilton]

I have always said that if the good old days were so good when it comes to technolgy then why don't they exist anymore. No doubt that it's very sad to see those CROWNS destroyed. It does fly in the face of logic that school bus operators would rather spend money to replace a bus every ten years than to keep a bus a CROWN at least twice as long but the market has spoken. We all have our favorite things that have gone the way of the square wheel and eight track. I love my '04 MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS as much as the day as I drove it off the lot back in January '04 and it still runs like a swiss watch and looks fine yet. I love the muffled growl of the V8 and I know that I'll never be able to buy another car this size with a V8 so my next car will likely have a V6 which is fine or (sad to think a 4 cylinder if that's all they have) but over time, I would get used to it and probably like it. Few could argue that the FORD model T was a good car. I doubt FORD could sell many in it's orginal form since it could not operate on the interstate. It would be nice if CROWN had stayed in business and came out with a new version of the skoolie. It would have likely been a rear engine design but it still would have had the structural strength that made it a legend.

[luvrbus]

I notice even the US government is selling off buses made in 2003 they are saying they are unserviceable sold with a end users certificate to be scraped the one in SC for sale now is a 2003 Blue Bird LTC 40 commuter with a M11 Cummins not a school bus a nice bus to be scraped out plenty of life left   

[boogiethecat]

Simply; the old stuff is cool, it's becoming rarer and rarer as the days go by, and it gives some of us joy to keep it working.
I have a piano that was made 120 years ago.  Unlike anything made today, it stays in perfect tune and only needs tuning every 10 years.  It sounds sweeter than any piano I've ever played, and it's unobtainium.  Everyone who sits at it and plays goes "wow!"  And when I see an old piano headed to the dump, I usually grab it and find it a home, because pianos like that just aren't made anymore and they just shouldn't be junked.
Old piano, old house, old bus, old car... and occasionally people like an old school buddie of mine, who for no reason other than he liked them, started collecting junky old 1957 T-birds back in highschool (60's) and restoring them.. the guy retired by selling half of his collection 20 years ago!  He bought a bunch of them in the 60's for $200 to $500 each, the ones he still has are worth more like $60k each...
Wish I'd have seen that light....

For me, the old Crown is a jewel.  It's well over 50 years old now ('62) and still has it's original engine, runs like a top, makes no black smoke, gets 10MPG doing 70, and uses virtually zero oil. Can you guys say that about your new machines?
That said, as mentioned in some of the above posts, not much besides the engine (Cummins 220) is old anymore, and even the engine has a turbo, a giant radiator, a plastic fan, new injectors and a freightliner air cleaner that certainly did not come with it as original equipment...  It has a 2004 rear axle with a Telma bolted to it, a '78 front axle and power steering gearbox, a 2008 fully synchronized Eaton 6 speed with a dual plate ceramic puck clutch, new brakes and tires.. and after next month it'll even a new roof made of aluminum instead of the old rusty steel roof it came with.  Basically it's an old looking bus sitting on very recent running gear.  But it's the old coolness that kicks butt over any new bus.  I get "wow that's awesome" comments at every fuel station I stop at.  People love to hang out inside with me.  It takes perfect care of me anywhere I go, and it gets there with zero issues every time in the 50K miles I've put on it.  And guess what?  If someone pops a big EMP off someday, it'll still start and run which is less than I can say about 99% of the rest of the vehicles out there today (which probably means I won't be able to go anywhere anyway due to the roads being blocked with a non-operable mess!)
Bottom line? I, and everyone else who loves the oldies, do it simply because as I said, it brings me joy. And that's what life is about I think...

[boogiethecat]

Here's something from an old poet named Henry Miller.  I think it says it all...

"But there is a class of hardy men, old-fashioned enough to have remained rugged individuals, openly contemptuous of the trend, passionately devoted to their work, impossible to bribe or seduce, working long hours, often without reward or fame, who are motivated by a common impulse - the joy of doing as they please. At some point along the way they separated from the others. The men I speak of can be detected at a glance: their countenance registers something far more vital, far more effective, than the lust for power. They do not seek to dominate, but to realize themselves. They operate from a centre which is at rest. They evolve, they grow, they give nourishment just by being what they are, . . To live beyond the pale, to work for the pleasure of working, to grow old gracefully while retaining one's faculties, one's enthusiasm, one's self-respect, one has to establish other values than those endorsed by the mob. It takes an artist to make a breach in the wall. An artist is primarily one who has faith in himself. He does not respond to the normal stimuli: he is neither a drudge nor a parasite. He lives to express himself and in so doing enriches the world."

[Iceni John]

It would be nice if CROWN had stayed in business and came out with a new version of the skoolie. It would have likely been a rear engine design but it still would have had the structural strength that made it a legend.

They did (sort of).   It was the Series II Supercoach, with a rear 6V92 and all the strength and quality of the twinkie-shaped mid-engine Crowns of the same era.   Had Crown not been shut down by General Electric ("We Bring Good Things To Life") in 1991, it would probably have moved forward with designs based more on the Super II.   However, the last Crown made was a mid-engine twinkie for Carpenteria.

Here's one of LAUSD's Super IIs:  LAUSD School Bus #6280 Crown Bus at Soto st
And here's one of Rialto's:  Rialto Unified School District #B-53 (Crown Coach Corporation)

That's what I have  -  lots of underfloor storage space, and the same driveline as an MC9 so it drives well.   Not your typical skoolie!

John

Oops  -  the clips have replicated themselves.   Sorry!

[CrabbyMilton]

I have that CROWN book and saw those. You pic won't come up on this PC so I'll try when I get home. I fyou want to blame GE that's fine but if the market wasn't there I don't think anyone could have kept them going. GILLIG built similar designs and they discontinued them as well.