NEW EAGLE BUS - WHAT DO YOU THINK? NOW LOCKED!

[JerryH]

Let me preface this post by saying, a) I hope they make a good go of it and succeed, b) Although I am an MCI owner, love the look of an Eagle.

That said ... the post DID start by asking, "What do you think?"  It solicited "opinion" from the board.  It didn't say, "Give me all your positive comments."

I've read and re-read all the posts.  I think that many of the Eagle owners here are (possibly) a bit thin skinned ... like someone has said something negative about one of their kids.  For many of the points, I don't think Tekebird was too far off.

Again, I commend Craig for doing what he's doing ... I wish him well ... hope he succeeds.  It will be tough.  Another coach Mfg. has a HUGE portion of that market.  I don't know numbers, but I am sure MCI would love to capture much of Prevosts market ... but that's not happening.

As far as the website.  Craigs not trying to sell kettlecorn.  Yeah you are right, the web wasn't around years ago ... but it IS now.  Walker's website was actually NOT that great.  It was over done and in my opinion ... kinda sucked.  Appearance IS everything.  If you cannot first capture a perspective buyer by appearance, you risk losing them.  Yes, history and qualifications DO count for something ... but the appearance is so important and could account for someone NOT knocking on your door should they get that far.  In the scheme of things -- investment wise ... a decent website is minor.  Hell, he had coffee mugs and shirts made ... he could have invested those dollars in a better website.  The shirts and the mugs were "feel good" items.

Playing Devils advocate here.  Again, wish him well, but think you Eagle owners need to remove the blinders and see that many of Tekebirds comments are valid.  Doesn't mean that you're a bad Eagle owner -- a bad bus person -- or a negative person. 

Just my $0.02, let the flood gates open.

JerryH.

[Eagle78550]

I do appreciate the comments both good and bad ...that is the American way ...freedom of speech and the ability to see both sides of an issue. As a Eagle owner, yeah I guess we are a little thin skinned as we have been abandoned before. That is when most Eagle guys jumped ship...when the parts situation hit the skids ...but us die hard Eagle guys never gave up...I do agree with some of T-birds points, and I acknowledged that...I guess I am a little closer to this deal having seen the operation and feel that I have family supporting me ....T-bird needs to remember that Bill Lear had no Aerospace background when he started building jets ....and became one of the most successful in his field. I hope that same rings true for Craig and his group...maybe the rally in April will open some eyes to the operation in Brownsville...in the heyday Eagle had 600+ employees and were building a coach every 12 hours ...it will be a while before Craig is there, but maybe he does not want to be ....I do not know ...I just like the fact that Eagle is built by hand by guys who really seem to care about the product..and in America.
T-bird keep the comments coming, I think it makes for good posts !!     

[Ross]

But I do believe the guy is putting his money in a VERY high risk market. But I hope he comes out a winner

Well, MCI pretty much has the passenger coach business wrapped up with Setra, Vanhool, etc filling in the gaps....and Prevost has the new entertainer/motorhome business wrapped up.  The big players in the conversion business don't have to pay for thier shells until they are completed and sold.  I don't know if they pay interest, like a floor plan.  If Eagle is willing to do that, they might get one or two of the smaller converters to give them a try.  I don't see a high end converter who is already hooked up with Prevost, and they all are, switching to the new Eagle.  There are a lot of reasons for that.  for one, The Prevost XL is a nicer looking bus.  More power to them, but they have an uphill battle.

IE: Bill Lear....Bill Lear pioneered the modern business jet.  He was pretty much the first one in his field.  He saw a need for high speed business travel and filled that need, which didn't exist at the time.  He didn't start building jets and then try to break into an already existing, very limited market.

Ross

PS...Im an MCI owner...I'm not bashing Eagle, I just think the Prevost XL is the nicest looking bus out there.

[Jeremy]

Although I'm probably very unqualified to contribute to this topic, I will just make a couple of comments from my perspective as an 'outside observer':-

Regarding the economic viability of the whole Silver Eagle enterprise, everyone seems to be assuming that they want to be another 'big player' alongside MCI, Prevost etc. I agree that this is unlikely for many reasons - but maybe that is not their ambition - maybe they just want to be a Mom & Dad operation building a few shells a year for the conversion market. There is always space in a market for a small, specialist company catering to niche customers - and the selling price of the final product is almost certainly NEVER a major issue if your product and marketing is right. (but then, I'm a marketing graduate so I'm probably biased).

Regarding the website, JerryH sums it up well. There are no two ways about it, websites are about image, and no matter what you may like to think, image is important. If your company needs a website (and not all do), it needs to be one which enhances your business rather than one which detracts from it.

Lastly, I have no axe to grind either way about Eagles vs any other make, but personally I like the appearance of the Eagle the least - they look to me to be the very epitome of the overweight dinosaurs of the 1970's - just like the bloated Cadillacs and Lincolns of that decade that seem such an anachronism today. I'm certain that is an unworthy and unfair view, as I expect the weight of an Eagle is no higher than an equivalent MCI or GM, but there is something about their shape and all that exposed metal that just screams 'heavy and old fashioned'. I'd love to own one though - an Eagle would be a real head-turner on UK roads

Jeremy

[captain ron]

Hey Jeremy, I'll get an eagle and trade you for one of those cool European coaches you posted pictures of.
They would be great head turners on the streets of America

[D0ggSh0]

I've read the above posts and understand everyone point of view though not necessarily in agreement with thereof. If people would just watch and listen to the video on the Eagle web site, you can get the overall feel of what those folks are embarking on. They certainly aren't trying to overtake MCI nor Prevost, but rather fill a niche market created in this unique case, by the very absent of what once was and can be. Hell Mr. Craig himself is the greatest epitome of an example – (or should I say sample?)- of having experienced the """grandor""" of the now classic Eagle, was wondering, questioning where, why, and how did it manage to "shipwreck"? Well as most of you know when a company is bought solely for financial gain, plus zero sentiment quality times (x) three, you eventually get zero whatever. But also you must understand that the Eagle pretty much pioneered the entertainment coach market, and when management allowed things to slip, well so Prevost and then MCI rightfully moved into the entertainment market originally created by the Eagle brand. I 'v talked to the folks over at Silver Eagle MFG and was assured most of the long reputable entertainment coach converters companies all have  back orders to be processed, and not just on the new model 25 , but also the 15, and 20  also.

P.S.  just to remind you how fickle this industry can be on the manufacturing side of the fence; Motor Coach Industries just recently filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection..

[roadrunnertex]

Folk's I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak.
I own a GMC Buffalo P8M4905A. It's a fine coach for my needs period.
If you own a Eagle it's a great bus it it's day.
But Every Eagle owner must remember this very one important thing.
And that is this if it were not for Greyhound and GMC building the PD-4501 Scenicruiser Continental Trailways would have never built the Eagle coaches for their use.
Greyhound and their Scenicruiser was eating into Continental Trailways passenger revenue big time when the Scenicruiser's came out in 1954.
So Eagle owners tip your hat to Greyhound and GMC and the PD-4501 Scenicruiser when one goes by.
jlv

[tekebird]

very true.

What is the latest.  one hand built prototype in better than 2 years.  No known production to date.

[makemineatwostroke]

No answers here most of the Eagle guys are in Branson enjoying a rally and could care less   have a great evening

[Dreamscape]

                                                               

[Songman]

very true.

What is the latest.  one hand built prototype in better than 2 years.  No known production to date.

But you earlier said they would be out of business in two years. You also complained about the bus not having an engine and being roadworthy. They are not out of business. The bus is roadworthy and made it's debut at Fan Fair. Will it ever be enough for you? No matter what step these guys take, you move your complaints up a step or two so they can never win. They are doing what they set out to do. They are doing it slowly sure, but they are doing it. Some of us would have done it differently, like building the 15 and 20 first. But we didn't take on the challenge, they did. We all know you hate Eagles. I was always an MCI guy too, but never hated Eagles the way you do. I like MCIs, Eagles, Prevosts, GMCs, and any other bus done well. Why not just give them credit for what they are getting done instead of moving your bar up? I'm not crazy about the looks of the 25 either but I guarantee you that you will see entertainers in them.. And in new 15s and 20s too whenever they start building them again.

And oh, btw, you are also incorrect when you said that "entertainer coaches are rarely owned by the entertainer". If you said 'new artists rarely own their own bus' you would be more correct. But most artists I know, and this is just about everybody in country music for the last 40 years, buys their own buses once they get to the point where they can. I can see Eagles getting back into that market whenever they get production going. And I think this is exactly what they want... not seated coaches.

[cody]

Well, I'm an eagle owner and I think the idea is great, but even if I didn't own an eagle I'd still think the idea is great.  I just can't see where having another bus company trying to start up is a bad thing, some may succeed, some may fail but in the end, busnuts will be the winners.  All buses have problems, eagles are prone to rusting, mci's are prone to air bag problems, the key here for buying a used one to convert is to do your homework and buy the one you feel will best suit your needs and abilities, both financially and physically.  The end result here is another bus that you might see on the road.  The only reason I could ever think of in anyone wanting them to fail would be a fear that somehow they may succeeed.

[tekebird]

Songman, I don't hate eagles, and I only posed the question because I was curious as w-to what was going on with them.

thier wesite has not been updated in the last 6 months, yes the bus went to Fan Fair, but no published photos of the interior, the engine comapartment, the bays, website is still the quality of a D project for a 6th grader.

They have not advertised one bit.

the pice in BCM was fluff and was not much more light bearing than the one they did 3 years ago in national Bus Trader.

It is fairly clear the owners are full of crap as to thier abilities as they can't even keep close to thier published timeframe.

The Bus exists and they have a rolling/driving Possibly incompete bus, otherwise they would be in production.

In the 3 year old NBT article I think it was they stated they had 30 some order or something to that effect.

As for ownership of buses...clearly the Contry industry who was supposed to come out in droves to buy this Belgian Icon, have not come out of the backwoods yet.

Of the several hundred entertainer coaches I have been in contact with in the past few years....none were owned.  all leased, some short term, some long term.  Dolly parton was the only owned coach...and that was just her personal unit...the other three were leased units.

Yes all buses have thier problems.  But Eagle not only has Rust in it's closet...but also a poorly run Comapny too boot.

Yep I said two years........and yep still in business.....but  they are not making buses are they........just a parts company to date save a hand built prototype.

Off to Michigan.

Enjoy a weeks peace on the matter

[luvrbus]

Craig, is building buses I know a little what goes on there it make no difference to him what Teke thinks or doesn't think Teke is their Charlie Brown and they enjoy his posts on the board

[Hartley]

Hey Guys,

Some of you have rebuilt your buses from the wheels up including all the reworks and new frames in less time than has passed since the "New Eagle" was originally announced.

Not that I am a skeptic or anything, But even though considerable time has passed there must be something else wrong that is limiting the new Eagles from being in production. Maybe the financial market meltdown is taking it's toll on them along with everyone else?

I don't know where they are headed or much about them, But consider that even MCI (US) is looking for cheaper capital and refinancing their position. Imagine what a startup has to go through. Many of the other European makers that once had factories and market shares here have either pulled out or ceased production for one reason or another. Doesn't that speak volumes about a hard market?

That's all I had to say.. Sorry if I upset anyone....

Dave....