A Question on A Eaton 12 Speed Ultra-Shift

[luvrbus]

Ok for the high tech guys can you program a Eaton Ultra-Shift to change gears under full engine power ? if so how,"Got Answers " I have the software

[twostick]

I'm not aware of an Eaton 12 spd. 13 spd yes.

If that wasn't a typo, ZF Merritor makes an automated 12 spd called a Freedomline.

As for your question, I have only test drove a 3 pedal Eaton Autoshift 10 spd and if you hold it on the rug it will go to governed speed and up shift but it still cuts the throttle to do it. If you have a laptop interface you can set the up and downshift parameters ie max auto upshift RPM minimum downshift RPM wherever you want them. If you want to max out an upshift past the preset parameter you would just use the hold button and hit the arrow button for the next cog.

Kevin

[bkelly1011]

Cliff -

Do you mean keeping the engine at constant speed during a shift like a torque-converter automatic does?  Never seen it done in those transmissions - so far.  Automotive gear-type automated manuals can get it done - I'm thinking VW's Dual-Shift-Gearbox as an example.

I have been looking around the internet trying to verify whether the bigger Ultra-Shifts use a crash-boxes or synchronizers.  The medium-duty 5- and 6-speeds apparently are synchro'd.  I'd think that not having synchros would limit the capability to do a on-the-throttle shift.

I know what you're getting at.  I've driven a bunch of Ultra-Shifts (5's and 10s) in rental trucks; it's like falling down the stairs each shift (especially on an on-ramp).  Some of the MCI J-models I drive these days are ZF "Astronomicals" as I like to call them - 12-speeds.  The ZFs skip-shift, which gives you an even bigger gap.  You can push buttons and go manual but then you forget what you're doing and --- well, forget it. 

I've seen the Fullers get upset when you're trying to creep backwards to a dock - you get the "CA" - Clutch Abuse - code on the truck dash.  Not sure how they'd like "power-shifting".

Brad

[luvrbus]

He told me it was a Eaton but it is the ZF in a MCI dropping RPM,s to shift seems like a waste no reason the bus owners want a B-500 or other Allison's this thing is awful out the starting gate are all the auto-shifts that way ? 

[Hard Headed Ken]

Mine is a 10 speed Ultrashift DM3 2 pedal. It's slow in town, a bit aggravating if you're in a hurry. In the lower gears it shifts smooth like an experienced driver with a manual transmission, 8th, 9th and 10th are so smooth I have to look at the display to notice the shift. It probably needs to be a 7 or 8 speed for the load it's carrying. If you remember to really feather the throttle in reverse and not be in a hurry it's smooth. It can't be programmed to shift under power or skip shift. Any automatic with comparable HP and weight will beat it red light to red light, but after 7th I'm coming by, see ya'

Ken

[Don Fairchild]

Clifford, the ultra shift does use a converter unlike the auto shift. The reason they drop the power back is to reduce the Torque shock on the input shaft. If you don't do that they will tear themselves up. You might be able to change the drop back programing a little but it wont be much, and I don't think you can de-rate the hp to get you what you want.

Sorry

Don

[Hard Headed Ken]

Don,
Mine just has a centrifugal clutch, no torque converter. Do certain models have the torque converter?? I don't see it mentioned here.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Truck/Transmissions/UltraShiftPlus/

Ken

[Don Fairchild]

Ken, yes some of them do, I will try to find my book and scan a couple of pic's for you.

Don

[TomC]

Eaton only made one series of torque converter automated transmissions-and that was the CEEMAT (Converter Electonic Engine Management Automated Transmission [if I remember right]). It was a dismal failure since the shifting motors were inside the trans.
Eaton has had three series of automated trans. First was the Autoshift with clutch pedal that shifted automatically, along with the Selectshift that you had to release the gas pedal to make the shift. Then came the Ultrashift DM clutch which had no clutch pedal and was a centrifigal clutch-this didn't work well since the clutch never really fully engaged-hence only about a 100k mile clutch lift. Now is the Ultrashift Plus available in 10, 11, 13, 18 spd. It has no clutch pedal and uses a normal clutch that is electrically activated on each shift-hence a faster shift-but still sounds like a manual transmission shifting. The Volvo I-Shift and the Detroit DT12 is also the same operation with a power operated clutch but with a 4spd main transmission and a 3spd planetary gear splitter for 12spds-but still sounds like a manual trans shifting.

The only transmissions that have continuous power and torque converters is the Allison planetary gear transmissions and ZF along with the new upcoming Allison CT10-which is a 10spd geared transmission with a torque converter-uses clutch packs instead of sliding crunch boxes. This transmission will turn the industry upside down-once it is in production.  Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

I am not that knowledgeable about the Eaton or ZF auto shifts that is why I asked, but I have been around the TC 10 Allison's test transmissions in Arrow's MCI and Setra's those shift under full power and have no clutch and I was thinking a re programing would help, looks like Eaton and ZF having some catching up to do with Allison

[Don Fairchild]

Tom, the ceemat is the one I was thinking about, I don't know if they put any of those in buses do you.

The TC-10TM is used in trials in NY city and PA and a few other places as inter city trucks as we speak, when I was down at Valley taking the 3000 4000 overhaul class they had one in there to look at.

They will be a factory only fix for the first year then dealer only until ??

Don

[CrabbyMilton]

I was wondering about the CEEMAT. HME offered it in fire apparatus for about 5 minutes and never showed up in the brochures again so that confirms that it flopped. TomC, do you think that the new ALLISON TCTM will ever be offered as an OEM in buses? I too think it'll blow away the ZF and others but perhaps it may be overkill since the B500 seems well suited as standard equipment.

[luvrbus]

The Allison TC 10 TS is available now Swift Transportation in Phoenix has been running 40 units with the TC 10 for about a year now to me they look like a regular B-500 or other Allison's

Arrows are TC 10 BS models I guess that stands for bus service the TS stands for truck service

[CrabbyMilton]

I'll keep checking MCI's website to see if they list this option in their brochures. I wonder if PREVOST and VAN-HOOL will offer it.

[Hard Headed Ken]

Then came the Ultrashift DM clutch which had no clutch pedal and was a centrifigal clutch-this didn't work well since the clutch never really fully engaged-hence only about a 100k mile clutch lift.

Tom,
I know everybody's experience is different. When I was doing research on the Ultrashift I found a local trucking company that had 17 in their fleet. The owner told me they rarely gave any problems. Occasionally the display would show a trouble code for no reason and they learned to just disconnect the battery and it would go away and it was a good practice to replace the XY shifter motors every 300,000 miles. He never mentioned any clutch problems. Mine has 250,000 and I don't think it has been replaced.  What was your experience with these transmissions ?

Thanks,
Ken