Advice on Series 50 RTS for sale now on EBay. I drove it today.

[Kevin Warnock]

Hello,

I test drove a 1994 RTS Series 50 bus that's for sale on EBay. It had a possible serious problem, but I don't know if it's serious. Maybe some of you here can help advise me.

When the I came to a stop, and the bus was going perhaps 10 miles an hour down to 0 miles per hour, the red 'Stop Engine' light and the yellow 'Check Engine' lights would come on for a few seconds, and then both go out. They didn't come on at the same time. The dashboard also beeped when the lights were on. When the bus was in idle, the lights and beeping would also come on and beep, not all the time, but maybe every 15 seconds or so, for two or three seconds at a time. The seller claims he never saw these lights come on before I took the bus for a test drive. The only thing they could think of is that we started the bus from the rear start switch during my pre-drive inspection. They said this was the first time they had tried the rear start switch. The bus started right up every time I tried, without being jumped and without any effort. I don't see how that could affect the stop engine and check enginge lights, though.

The second issue is that the air conditioner didn't appear to blow cooled air. It blew cool air, but it was cool outside, about 60F. Is there a knob in the engine compartment that we have to turn off to get the air conditioning to blow really cold? I have seen a 1978 RTS where if you didn't turn off that knob, you would never get really cold air out of the AC, because the bus was sending heat up front via some water pipes? The bus otherwise was in very good condition, with less than 400K on the dash odometer. The steering was the tightest I have ever seen on a bus, about 1.5 inches of play. This bus is for auction on EBay, so I don't know how much it will cost. I don't see how I can have the bus inspected before the end of the auction, as my mechanic is a three hour drive from where the bus is, and he's too busy to come see the bus himself, and, at $100/hr, that would be a costly drive for me. I'm going to guess the bus will sell for $9 to $11K, as there is no reserve.

The bus owner was really nice. He has 13 other busses in various states of disrepair on his property, and he showed us all of them with great enthusiasm and pride. He had the engines out of several. He's in the business of changing bus engines, but he only works on mechanical engines. He bought the RTS I am asking about here at a city auction just recently, from a city nearby his property. Given the bus is just over 12 years old, this story seems believable. This was the cleanest, nicest riding used bus I've ever driven, and it has great curb appeal. But I am considering upgrading because I want bus air really badly, for those 100+ plus days, and I really want a Series 50 for the good fuel economy.

The Series 50 has a sticker saying it was made in 1993. The acceleration was brisk. The top speed was 62mph. There was no colored smoke at any time from the exhaust pipe. I have heard so-called 'California EPA' Series 50 engines are to be totally avoided. What year did they start making that dubious version? Given the acceleration was as strong as my 8V71 powered MCI5, I suspect this RTS does not have the EPA Series 50. If it does, though, should I not buy it? I hear they are prone to breakdown, and cost a fortune to repair.

Generally, I know it's a bad idea to buy without an inspection. But how does one do that for an EBay bus? I could just win the bid and then insist on their driving it to my mechanic, at my expense, as a condition of completing the sale. Since the ad says the bus is in 'in tip top shape' and clearly it is not, I could use that as my reason to insist on an inspection by my mechanic. They said there are no mechanics in the area with experience on Series 50 engines.

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. The aution ends in 3 days, so time is of the essence. 

Warm Regards

[HighTechRedneck]

My RTS is an 82 with a 6V92T so it isn't exactly the same.  But I know on mine, it makes no difference whether it is started from the front or the rear as long as ultimately the front engine control is turned to the run position before driving.  (Actually, it can't be driven without being turned to run because most of the dash and throttle don't work until it is in the run position.)  So I doubt that was the cause of the warning indicators.  I would consider the indicator lights to be warning of an actual issue.  Serious or minor, I don't feel qualified to say.

As for the air conditioning, on mine the compressor is locked out until the air temperature crosses a threshold.  I think that threshold is about 65°-70°, so that is probably the case on that one.

Buying without a thorough inspection is high risk.  It may look cherry, but if the engine has troubles that you don't find out about until you have bought it, then it could just be the pits.  I would do more independent checking of the area for Detroit Diesel experienced mechanics.  It could cost you several hundred dollars to get one there, but it could cost you thousands not to.

Please don't take my advice as a complete turn off on it.  It may be as simple as a bad connetion on a sending unit or a bad ground in the dash.  In which case that would be a winner of a bus.  But only a qualified mechanic with his hands on the bus can tell you for certain.

hth

[RTS/Daytona]

Hi Unknown Name

Here's a link to verify where the bus came from ->

http://www.omot.org/roster/RTSII/index.html

If it's 102" (wide body) - it may an RTS model 06

I didn't see any California wide bodies RTS model 08

There should be a toggle switch on the front side of the VR731 shifter box (down low with a safety cover over it)

<>  Turn the RTS knob to run
<>  no need to start the bus
<> bring the switch up and hold it up
<> count the flashes on the check engine light (2 digit error #'s)
     should be 2 set of flashes per error with a small pause between error numbers
<> I believe first are the errors in memory - then a longer pause and current errors

<> here's a list of error codes -->
http://www.valleypowersystems.com/Products/Detroit%20Diesel/DDEC%20Fault%20Codes.htm

<> only error codes 43-45 (will also bring up the STOP ENGINE LIGHT)
    LOW COOLANT   -- LOW OIL PRESSURE  -  OIL or COOLANT HIGH TEMP

MY GUESS - LOW OIL if it came on after a stop - bring a gallon of Rotella with you
but if could also be - low coolant - take 2 gallons of distilled water with you and fill the water tank - IT HAS TO BE PASS THAT DAMN D/D DDEC WATER SENSOR -

P.S. the ebay ad says - VR731 - that means the tranny has a RETARDER (nice feature - kind of like JAKE BRAKE - but works via the tranny)

IIRC - there is an ambient temp sensor that turns the heat on rather than the A/C compressor if it's lower than 65 degrees.

If you know what your doing - (and the seller would allow it) - you could turn the a/c on (to get the blowers running) then remove the compressor clutch wire and use a jumper wire to energize the a/c clutch directly to test the A/C


Pete RTS/Daytona     386..672...0571  (Florida Time)

P>S> how about a NAME  

Pete, You know I can't leave that message in here...
Nick-

[Tom Y]

Did you see the couple MCIs with S50 in them?  Tom Y

[bobofthenorth]

Flickering engine lights at idle are most likely oil pressure.

[jjrbus]

Bus fever!!!!! Time is not of the essence!!!! There are many buses for sale. Do not buy a bus without having it inspected!!!

[WVObus]

The RTS is a nice style coach and great to drive, however NO bays to work wiith, and ebaay has a ton of them between 6,000 often.  There is onw on the BNO sale for 5,000 in TN for over a year now.  THE AD is kinda sketchy on hiastory and knowledge of buses overall. get everything in writting.

There is a yahoo group for RTSBUSNUTS, GO THERE AND ASK questions form thoses that know RTS's .

John F.