Weighing the Bus

[Jon]

A vehicle may be considered a commercial vehicle if it is:
Belongs to a company or corporation
Used for business, but is in an individual's name, such as a sole proprietor
A leased vehicle and in the name of the financial institution that owns it
Exceeds a certain weight or class and therefor,e is "classified" as commercial even though it may not be commercially used or commercially owned. A weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more is always consider commercial.[2]
Used to haul any hazardous material
A vehicle can be used for a business, if not exclusively, and remain privately licensed, depending on the amount of time used for business.

The above was from Wikipedia and I believe the last sentence says it all.

[akroyaleagle]

Jon,

I am familiar with that wikipedia document.

A couple of comments:

wikipedia is neither official nor a government entity. It is a web site. It has no legal status.

The LAW relating to this thread is Federal Motor Carrier Safety Admistration.

[Jon]

Joe,

Not to belabor the point but where is the definition of what constitutes a commercial vehicle. There are all kinds of regulation about how to operate one and how they must comply, but I cannot see where my personal converted coach becomes a commercial vehicle if I use it to go to a trade show.

[muldoonman]

There is a weight station east and west side, East of Luling Texas on I 10 that has been there for years but they haven't been manned or open that says "All Buses and Commercial Vehicles must stop."  If they open, I will cruise on by and see if they chase me down. Will change and let my wife sit in the drivers seat because she always says I never take her anywhere. Maybe to jail?

[sledhead]

They sell new sticks and staples  R V s at 50,000 lbs , do you think that guy even thinks about the   TRUCK scales as he drives by going to a rv rally with his blinds for sale?     we own rv's   not buses                               dave

[akroyaleagle]

Sledhead:
You are absolutely right! The word bus should be dropped from the RV vocabulary. Our coaches should be titled and registered as Motor Home or Recreational Vehicle.

Jon:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=390.5&keyword=15%20seats%20or%20more

FMCSA part 390.5

Bus means any motor vehicle designed, constructed, and or used for the transportation of passengers, including taxicabs.

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

(My note: Our coaches are designed for other purposes and become the recreational vehicles they are now designed for. They no longer meet the definition of bus. Entertainers coaches still meet the definition of buses. There is a gray area when it comes to vans. The law says if they have the capacity to seat 15 or more, they are Commercial. We have Hutterites in this part of the country. They use vans of that capacity but I don't see Commercial plates on them).

Internet Boards are probably not the place to get legal information (unless the reference is furnished and correct).

Understanding the rules for Commercial Operations requires a lot of studying.

Determining whether they apply by definition is simply knowing where to look and understanding what you read.

[eagle19952]

define property....

[akroyaleagle]

Donald,

From the Webster Dictionary:

prop·er·ty   [prop-er-tee]  noun, plural prop·er·ties.  

1. that which a person owns; the possession or possessions of a particular owner: They lost all their property in the fire.  

2. goods, land, etc., considered as possessions: The corporation is a means for the common ownership of property.  

3. a piece of land or real estate: property on Main Street.  

4. ownership; right of possession, enjoyment, or disposal of anything, especially of something tangible: to have property in land.  

5. something at the disposal of a person, a group of persons, or the community or public: The secret of the invention became common property.

[Miss Scarlett]

The bottom line is that if you use your bus for any purpose where accepting or making any money is involved you are viewed as commercial by the authorities. That probably includes winning a prize at a rodeo or selling a doughnut. Even if we see it as a hobby and spend 10 times more money than would ever be won they still see it as commercial.

[Len Silva]

Using your coach to travel to a show and to live in is not commercial.  Even carrying sale literature and promotional materials is no different that any sales person transporting that type of material.
Using your coach to transport material that you will sell at a show is commercial use.

[Jon]

Joe, Great job in doing the research and my reading of your efforts means my converted coach (oops. I mean my motorhome) is not a commercial vehicle. When I was doing trade shows the materials I carried were not for sale but for the display so even if questioned I would not be construed as a commercial vehicle.

[akroyaleagle]

Jon,

Thanks for the comments!

Just as a clarifier, I did not address sales literature and materials. Only property, which I provided the standard definition of, for Donald.

I will restate:

The burden of proof is on the perceived violator.

I am not by any means the authority. I do have considerable experience keeping employers out of hot water with the Feds.
My experience has always been that the Feds will back off IF they can be persuaded that their interpretation is weaker than yours.

This is especially true of the FAA. That's another kind of soup!

In closing,

It ain't hearsay, if you can back it up!

[John316]

A little late to the game, but this is an issue very near and dear to my heart. 

We have tried to figure out what the law says, and here is what we found. If you make ANY money with your RV, then you are commercial. Haul your racecar to races to win some money? Based on what the troopers say, you are commercial. We went to the top dog at the Kansas DMV, and he said that "If you make money with your RV, then you are commercial." Not as in the case of I haul your materials for a set amount of money, but as in a private commercial vehicle.

The other details? No idea. You can debate it.

[Lin]

I think that John's research and experience just posted is very important.  It tells us that, whether the authority is technically right or wrong, they are likely to use a simple, highly inclusive formulae that errs on the side of calling you commercial.  From there, you will be welcome to fight the citation.  So, if a trooper asks you if you make any money from your coach, you should deny knowledge of the existence of money in the first place.

[wg4t50]

When in the vicinity of police dogs, be aware the standard German Shepard is being replaced, since the Germans are not a problem, they are changing over to the Coon Hound.