And there it was ...

[rv_safetyman]

Don, I've been having one helluva time getting the pistons in the liners but I've spared the board all the details.  Once I get 'er done  I'm gonna need your help to write it up as a dime novel that we can sell on Amazon a la C&C  

Is this kind of crap really necessary?

Chris and Cherie write about things that they have a very good knowledge about and try their best to offer their knowledge to folks who might want information on that subject. In some cases they are doing the testing for technology we might want to use in the future (for example lithium batteries):  http://www.technomadia.com/2011/10/lithium-update-2-the-promise-of-lithium-rv-batteries/.  They research the latest technology in Internet for the road (and write what you term as a "dime novel" about their research).

They seem to have become the brunt of a lot of "cheap shots" the last week or two.  I, for one, am tired of folks poking fun of their effort to try to gather as much information about their engine problem.  Their threads may seem funny to some of you, but, before the threads went to hell, they offered good thoughts for folks that may face the same problem in the future.

Just another case where this kind of crap has probably driven off another good source of information.

Jim

[TexasBorderDude]

Whoa, whoa,  I meant nothing of a sort.  I will amend my post immediately.

[rv_safetyman]

Thanks Doyle.  I was really surprised to see the comment.  Didn't sound like something you would say.

My hackles have been ruffled this past couple of weeks with all the "stuff" going on - on the two boards.  Humor is one thing, but some of the things going on are not at all funny.  Running Chris and Cherie off was the tip of the iceberg.

I wish with all my might that I could just let it roll off my back, but I just hate to think about what the new folks to these boards must think.  When someone gets blasted for welcoming a newcomer, that just makes my skin crawl.

As a group, we have a lot to offer new folks.  We can pick them up when they stumble.  We can keep them from making the same mistakes we made.  What we can't seem to do is to act like the friendly people we really are.

Jim

[TexasBorderDude]

Jim,

I would have much preferred that you had pm'd me to ask what I meant and I'd have gladly modified the post so no one would misunderstand, but you choose to throw it right out there in public, which doesn't seem to accomplish your stated goal of a positive board, living in a world of extensive knowledge, in peace and harmony and totally politically correct.

[rv_safetyman]

Doyle, you make a good point.  

While my comment seemed aimed at you, it was really aimed at a lot of folks.  I apologize that I took it out on you.

It doesn't help that I hate the PM process.

Jim

BTW, it sounds like it was your engine that had a bad rebuild and you and Clifford are redoing.  I hope that you guys will document what was wrong with the first engine.  That could save folks a lot of heartache. 

Again, my apologies.  I really need to get a handle on my emotions.

[TexasBorderDude]

snip... Running Chris and Cherie off was the tip of the iceberg.

Jim

Jim, tell me what to re-read in that thread, but the only thing I recall (could be wrong, please correct) that could never be considered a joke by anyone, was a misuse of the term "bastards" and a blatant personal attack on me.  If the standard is that everyone must think the humor is "funny" or it can not be posted, is a very high bar to attain.

[TexasBorderDude]

snip...
BTW, it sounds like it was your engine that had a bad rebuild and you and Clifford are redoing.  I hope that you guys will document what was wrong with the first engine.  That could save folks a lot of heartache. 

Thanks for the comment.

Yes, the engine was totally redone by the po less than 50k miles ago, but a miriad of issues and some big name outfits who serviced it since (they'll remain nameless, but I have some tips on how to avoid).  It's been blowing black smoke for since 2008 and only this spring did I take Clifford up on his offer to help me get it fixed.  Fortunately he's let me do a lot of the work and I've made lots of mistakes along the way, but have documented much of it with pictures like the oil rings shown above.  I plan to do a write up for anyone who's interested to review.

[rv_safetyman]

Doyle, our messages passed in the wind.

YOU did not run C&C off.  Repeat, it was not you.  Hell, maybe they still are planning on posting.

Unfortunately, you made a comment that seemed to add to the negative comments and it just hit me the wrong way.

What ran them off (if indeed, that is the case) were the various  threads that were related to their engine failure.  Each thread started off pretty well.  They got lots of good input from lots of folks.  Knowing them they did a lot of analysis of the input they got.  Then, the tide started to turn.  First folks started second guessing how they were going about their "troubleshooting" process.  That morphed into folks almost taking them to task on their process.  Then folks started making what some might classify as "humorous" comments about their process.  Some folks seemed very upset that they did not follow the posters recommendations.  Unfortunately, you were dragged into the shower of X%&*# that followed (comment about free labor or something like that).

Chris and Cherie have very good heads on their shoulders.  It is always easy to second guess how they are going about resolution of their problem.  None of us has the full benefit of their thinking.  They are in the position of being able to resolve their problem without cutting corners.   Each of us might approach their situation differently, and we should respect their approach.  If they screw up, they will (I hope) give us the benefit of second guessing themselves.

Jim

[luvrbus]

Jim, one question since when do we need your permission here to post I know I pissed you off about Chris and Cherie but the thing turned into a soap opera it was no help to anyone  

To me personally I think it did more harm than good most people that own a 8000 dollar bus try and fix it the best they can on limited funds they don't have 20+ grand to throw at a bus that was the part I didn't like as they kept saying it over and over in one way or the other  

Hell I would not spend 20 grand on a $20,000 bus, anybody if they have the fund can take it to a shop  

Then you have a owner like Mike aka Red Ryder he gave 500 bucks for a engine that is probably just as good as the one they are paying 20 grand for that is the type information people need not all the drama of engine rebuild at a dealer and I can picture you spending 20 grand on engine rebuild lol

You can thank Don Fairchild for bringing them down from the sky the 35,000 + he quoted for the upgradde made both stop and think is worth it hell no all the posting just cost a week of their time

We live in a different world now days the younger generation likes the photos,drama facebook all the details in blogs and books, then you have my generation that don't give a rats @$# just fix the damn thing and go down the road for another 10 years  

There it is guys fire away that is just the way I feel

[usbusin]

You can go to their blog (Chris & Cherie) and see what they are doing.

www.technomadia.com

[TexasBorderDude]

Jim,

I'll give you the last word on this subject, because I will post no more on this thread.  I never though you meant that I had driven C&C off.  In fact it was news to me that they had been "driven off" by anyone or anything.  Because someone has not posted doesn't indicate that someone is "off"

Now... "You GSO#'s I'm outta here" might indicate that.

I can only assume that the reason C&C ever came to this board, was to avail themselves of the expertise of its participants.  They are free to accept or reject any and all input.  No one has the right to challenge the right of another to his own opinion.  One can point out flaws, opposite perspective, etc.  Remember we're not talking to our children when advise means "Do this, because I'm dad"

C&C were certainly free to do whatever they choose, but I believe were selective with what information they shared... which, again, is everyone's right.  I don't want to take too much credit, but it seems to have gone south when I joked about that 4106 over there worth $7,000 and having $40k in it.  I actually had a Porsche 911 like that once!

I for one would like to see some suggestions, if not "Rules" for the board that:
1.  No direct addressing of any member in a post unless it pertains to the original thread, and is as a result of someone else's post.  (BCO did ask about my trip to Las Vegas in this, HIS thread.)
2.  If someone does not think humor is funny, let it go.
3.  If someone thinks humor is offensive, get a clarification in a non-public means (PM, email ((most email addresses are part of the profile)), or let a moderator check it out)
4.  Let's all chill a little.



ps  It's my birthday!

[eagle19952]

Last I heard for whatever reason, the engine left the steam bay on Friday or Saturday and sits waiting.....yet.

[luvrbus]

I been with you all day and you didn't tell me it was your birthday Doyle and Coffee never said a word either

happy birthday

[technomadia]

PS: The one thing that DOES really bother us is how there have been so many mentions lately of how our "high profile" sharing of our current issues is "going to drive people away" from buying buses, or lower resale values. This is ridiculous - there are many people who are now bus nuts shopping for or owning buses because of us, who would have never even considered the option otherwise. Sharing does not drive people off! Egads!

Yes... I do feel some hesitation in how welcome we are to continue seeking advice, for fear that we're seen as doing 'more harm than good' to the bus community. I've seen several threads make mention of folks not thrilled that we're posting about our 'engine blow up' because it might deter interested buyers.  

And we *have* been a bit gun shy about participating in threads for the past couple of days where we otherwise might for fear of diverting the conversation as this well intentioned thread has been, without us even participating.  (Our apologies to BCO.. your heartfelt inspiring message has been totally derailed.)

We are in touch with a lot of folks in our general age range who are both exploring being full time RVers, and doing so in bus conversions. That's our audience, and our audience is very wide these days. We feel a bit of an obligation in having inspired so many to consider bus conversions, that we feel we should be sharing openly and honestly about the good and the bad.

Since we were so warmly welcomed into this community when we started our search, BCM is the first place we direct bus-interested folks who contact us. And when those folks de-lurk and introduce themselves, and are greeted with squabbling unrelated to them on their very thread - it's really sad to see. Not to say that concerns shouldn't be discussed in their own threads or PMs.

Hey, we're tough cookies. We can take a bit of heat directed at us when folks don't agree with our approach. We mostly just laugh it off and go about our day - as in the end, we all are responsible for our own decisions.

- Cherie

PS. Eeeps... my quoting Chris' reply seems to have deleted his. *sigh*  To summarize his points:

- We haven't been run off - we're still posting new threads, and participating where we can.
- We LOVE the bus community.. it'll take more than a few harsh words to keep us from coming back.

[Van]

Happy Birthday from all of us to all of You Doyle