LOOKING FOR A "PASS THROUGH" ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP

[bansil]

Not sure if this is correct name

I lost prime this weekend on the bus,5.9 in front fuel tank 35 feet behind and the filter(filled before replacing) is 1/2 way between

I cracked all injectors and proceeded to pump the engine mounted primer...I got a little out of #1 that's it

So once I get it started (or before), I want to put an electric pump in line at tank so I can bleed air and then just turn it off until it's needed again (that's the pass thru reason)

I am going to rig up a Preston valve in the gas cap to use a bicycle pump to get maybe 10 pounds of pressure to help.

I just thought an electric pump would be easiest

[Oonrahnjay]

I just thought an electric pump would be easiest   

      Yes, these work well.  There are a few different ones on the NAPA website, etc.   A couple of  things:  Check the fuel pickup in the tank - if it's a tube type extending down into the tank, it could be moved or dislodge or damaged.  You might was well start with being sure that you're picking up from the best location at the bottom of the tank (but be sure that you're not picking up grit or contaminant from the bottom of the tank and make sure that filter(s) are in good shape).

       You might find that you'll find easier, quicker starts if you turn the electric on before you hit the starter button.  Sometimes, a little boost on the fuel pressure will help you.  This is another one of those "be careful" areas because if you see big difference, it might indicate a significant air leak causing the fuel prime to drop off when the engine isn't running.  If you see this, it's worth checking.

       I would be careful about 10 pounds.  On something decades old fuel lines or something as large as a fuel tank, that's a fair old pressure.  As little as 2 - 3 pounds will lift fuel a few feet and that's all you need, just enough pressure to move the fuel along and put a tiny bit of pressure on the air bubbles is all you need.  Also, don't forget these these fuel systems were designed to operate under vacuum and if you pressurize them, you may cause leaks that will allow fuel spill out.  If you pressurize your system with air pressure or an electric pump, it's a good idea to inspect it closely for leaks when you start and then keep an eye on things at a regular basis.

       Many of the experienced people will tell how how easy it is to prime most fuel systems with a garden sprayer (and that's certainly true) but you'll be amazed at how easy it is to assure good fuel flow (under all conditions) and a quick prime when that's what you need with one of these.

[bansil]

Okay
10 pounds is extreme now that I think about it anything over 4 messed with old floats in carbs

Tonight I plan to pull floor plates since one is pickup and one is sending unit, I will know more tomorrow


I did drain out about 2 gallons into a bucket and was surprised to how clean it was less than 1/8 inch of water on 1/2 the bottom

water drain on filter had this;
a little water, rust/grit



filter was dated 2011 and I planned to change it and empty tank etc this summer, just doing it sooner 



I actually had it down about 50 gallons (75 gallon tank) and topping it off stirred up bottom and it got sucked into filter (since fuel coming out of bottom looked so good (lowest spot on tank in middle 3/4 inch hole...it came out quick 

Thank you!!!

I will have my wife check on one from Napa

[bevans6]

This is what I use, usually fairly available.  I use the 24 volt version, 10 - 14 psi, the pressure is not an issue at all.  You put it in the line before the first fuel filter, it pulls the fuel from the tank, into the primary fuel strainer and up to the pump.  As soon as the sound changes it's primed, you turn it off and start the engine.  Works faultlessly, I may even add a switch to mine someday...  Many busnuts have used these with much success.

It is an Airtex pump:
PART NUMBER TYPE VOLTS PRESSURE FLOW (GPH) INLET/OUTLET SIZE APPLICATIONS
E8131 Solenoid 24 10-14 PSI 35 3/8 hose 24 Volt Large Diesel Applications
E8153 Solenoid 12 10-14 PSI 35 3/8 hose Diesel Engines

Brian

Edit:  it occurs to me the poster might not have a diesel bus, or a detroit engine - so take this advice and adapt it to your situation, please!

[bansil]

Thanks
It's a 5.9 Cummins 12V

My wife was pricing a AFP E8058 from Napa

Fuel Pump Fitting Size : Inlet - 5/16, Outlet - 5/16

Fuel Pump Fitting Type : Inlet - Hose Barb, Outlet - Hose Barb

Fuel Pump Gallons Per Hour : 14 gph

Fuel Pump Pressure Rating : 1.5 - 3 psi

Contents : Pump & Kit

The one you listed E8153 is cheaper and a proven winner; so I will go with this and it has bigger inlet/outlet

Fuel Pump Fitting Type : Inlet - Pipe Thread, Hose Barb, Outlet - Pipe Thread, Hose B

Fuel Pump Gallons Per Hour : 35 gph

Fuel Pump Pressure Rating : 10-14 PSI

Fuel Pump Fitting Size : Inlet - 1/4"-18", 3/8", Outlet - 1/4"-18", 3/8"

Thank you!!
Doug

[joel_newton]

I have a NIB E8153 I've decided not to use.  My new fuel filter has a manual pump on it and the Cummins pick up fuel pretty well.  Send me a PM if interested.

[bansil]

PM sent thank you

[Fredward]

FOUL!
Brian quit showing off your clean 871. What the heck? Do you wipe it down every time you run it?

I have a similar setup with a 24volt pump from Napa. But I set it up in a bypass configuration because I was afraid it might restrict fuel flow if left in line turned off.

Fred

[joel_newton]

A match made in Heaven - a Bus Nut married to someone with a parts store connection!!!  LOL

[bansil]

I have a similar setup with a 24volt pump from Napa. But I set it up in a bypass configuration because I was afraid it might restrict fuel flow if left in line turned off.

Fred

I was wondering if it would restrict my 190 HP power plant

if it does it will be very obvious and quickly noticed

A match made in Heaven - a Bus Nut married to someone with a parts store connection!!!  LOL

I'm not sure if any of my hobbies would of worked in the past w/o the connection

[bevans6]

Hey Fred!  Ha! That pic was before I had actually run it for more than 20 minutes after installing the engine.  The first long trip all the paint burnt off the manifolds and a little oil leak started from one head joint...  It's still pretty clean, but not that clean.    My engine has the pump in-line as you can see, and it's a 405 hp spec 8V71T, and it sure was not restricted.  I drove all the way from Hamilton Ontario to Nova Scotia and only had to downshift to third on the highway twice because of hills - and there are some doozy hills on that route, it runs through the northern stretch of the Appalachians.  Clifford said that he ran the same pump in-line for years on his big hp 8V-92's, so I figured it would be fine, and it was.  I just make sure to turn it off after it primed.  After the engine ran for a bit and purged out all the air, and kind of woke itself up, it has not needed priming again.  That engine was on a shelf for probably 20 years before I bought it and installed it in my bus.

Brian

Edit:  two gratuitous pic's, one of it about to be inserted into the bus for the first time, and one as it was when I bought it.

[bansil]

405HP...MMMM...if I make my doghouse 3 feet taller............

[Fredward]

What the heck? where is the compressor? Turbo is in the way.
All of that fits in the MC-5 ?

[bevans6]

Here you go, Fred, the whole story...  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=21836.0

Turbo is on the driver's side, now, I relocated the skinner valves to the other side to make room.  More gratuitous pics...

Brian

[bansil]

Well this is long, if  anyone is curious...the ordeal is over and no electric pump was installed

SO she LIVES

what a journey, it's been to get re-primed and running with this simple 5.9

This is long and I hope it will help someone else in the future



lets back up 2 weeks to when this started

We got home, and after letting oil/turbo etc cool; I turned switch off and it ran on for about 5 seconds, I thought it was weird, oh'well she shutoff and I could always just move lever on intake

I then proceeded to change out the fuel filter, I had no luck getting it primed, even after filling the filter and pushing the stupid little primer pump....so I quit and grabbed a beer this is where the story left off


worked all week,etc...

So friday after work Lisa and I grabbed a glass of wine and went to the bus to prime and get her started

I still had the lines cracked open, so I pumped the primer pump and hit the key...CLICK.....nothing..I said I left the key on I guess and need to charge the battery

I checked voltage and I had good voltage, headlights and horn worked so I thought

1)not enough amps
2) or starter/solinoid is bad

So I grabbed a srewdriver,had her turn key on(click main solinoid) and proceed to bypass solinojd on starter.she spun right up......mmm...plenty of battery

So I grabbed my meter and put it on the solinoid lug coming from the key, Lisa turned key "click" no 12V at lug...but it's clicking.WTF

Lisa said it's not clicking at the starter is it?

I grabbed the starter solinoid and had her hit the key "click" but didn't feel it...so we got to looking


tucked away was another soliniod......and the main feed was broken (the last pc of green copper wire just broke, maybe 2 strands left,

So I cut wire and crimped on another ends and attatched it

Guess what? The starter now engaged via dash key....woop,woop

So I preceeded to pump while she would crank.....even had a dodge tech on the phone(friend)

The battery was about dead now and still no fuel out of the lines...argh....bed time now after hooking up battery charger


So I had Lisa bring home a fuel pump and I was bound and determined to get her running today, only issue was no real way to get to the lines to splice into them.

I noticed an "extra" line coming from the tank and hanging below the "crash cage"...I rolled out and went to filler neck...woop...woop...a non vented cap!!! so that was a vent line

So I now was able to pressurize the tank!





okay I am in business, turned pump on and it went to about 10 lbs or so....jumped under bus, and filled pre filter....next was filter at engine, and I had fuel coming out of the top bleed hole on filter going to pump..in business

I cranked over, 15 more seconds,repeat no fuel from lines on injectors....I said I am not getting fuel shut off must not be working??I could hear the solinoid and "feel" it clicking

Problem was

It was clicking but not pulling the lever up to allow fuel into pump

I could turn the key one, shutoff would click, and you could push lever up and it would hold....


fuel shutoff solinoid,round thing with wire out of top



So I researched and found some diagrams and instructions,when cranking it gets voltage to "pull" the lever up,while running it is in "hold" mode,when key turns off it releases and a spring pushes lever down and engine stops

So the "pull" function during cranking wasn't working


So I tracked wires from the "secondary" solinoid that goes through a nother fuse to the "pull" side of the shut off...............see...........


so I replaced the fuse.(the cheap little hard plastic fuse-craptastic melted, so that got replaced also)

pumped primer 50 times and turned the air compressor back on.....walla I had fuel at lines in a bout 15 seconds


I tightened lines and she puffed alittle smoke but not enough speed to start

So I moved my truck in closer...it was tight


I let it charge for 15 min and VROOM.....the beast spit forth fire and brimestone......


Sorry so long