8V92 Oil

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Gary,

Here is a cupon for 50% off oil change, lube, & oil & Fuel Filters from MCI.

It's good until Jan 31st  Just print it out and bring it with you!

Nick-

[Busted Knuckle]

Hey Russ,
Excellent advice!!! But I think that he only bought the oil & filters from ABC (if I read it right) and then took it from there an changed it himself ! I could be wrong ! But because I once thought I was wrong, and then found out I was mistaken! I doubt it!  LOL!    BK   

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Yes, you are right.  I changed the oil myself.  But I used the oil the Parts guys at ABC recommended.

An update:  I called the General Manager at AMC in Garden Grove and we had a very nice conversation.  I explained my situation and he said he would call me right back.  Thinking I was getting blown off, he called back 5 minutes later and said he talked to his Service Manager and said they use multi-weight (the same oil they sold me) in all of their busses and they run several with DD's in them with no problems.  He said I can call DD myself and ask them if I want another opinion.  He gave me their local number and I called (I really don't want to spend another $100 if it isn't necessary) and spoke with the parts guy and he said they always use 40W oil in their 8V92's but doesn't know why and doesn't know what harm the oil I bought could do. 

I happened to call ABC back a bit later for something else (tires, see later thread) and got the Operations Manager.   I asked him his opinion and he said the majority of people now use the multi-viscosity oil now-a-days in these engines.  He said there is nothing wrong with using this oil in these engines.  Furthermore, he said that if they have bus drivers travel in cold country, he would be afraid novice drivers may race the engine to get the air pressure up and may damage an engine before it had a chance to warm up. 

The Operations Manager has been doing busses for 30 years and said there is no need to drain the multi-viscosity oil from the engine.   He said many Old Timers (perhaps the folks that responded to this thread) swear by the 40W oil, but said the detergents in the newer oil are actually better for the engine.  So now I am trying to decide what to do.  I plan on reading the "Lubricating Oil, Fuel and Filters" document some nice man put in the thread before making any decisions.  I still don't know what harm 10-40 will do, except it may go thru it faster.  But then again, I really don't want a $10,000 engine repair bill either and a bunch of Bus Nuts saying "I told you so".  That would be worse than the $10,000.

[Dallas]

Hatt,
In my opinion, and it isn't worth too much, is that the parts guy, the service manager and the General manager are full of used male cow food.

If you happened to put a Reliabiult 2 cycle engine in the bus, (Reliabuilt is a Detroit Diesel trademark), and it blew up while you were using multiviscosity oil, your warrantee would be null and void.

Another point to ponder is that if you use the 15W40 or whatever it was, the back end of your bus and your toad will never ever rust. You can look to use at least twice as much oil as if you were using straight 40wt oil.

I really suggest you read and believe the 7SE270 document you were given the link for.

also, you may want to join the Detroit 2 cycle group on Yahoo:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/

It's amazing the stuff you'll learn about your engine and it's capabilities.

[Dreamscape]

This is how I see it.

If DD says that multi-viscosity oil is to NOT BE USED in our older Detroits, that's good enough for me.

Besides, everyone on this board with much more experience than myself says to use only 40 W oil, than I trust their experience and knowledge.

My manual also says the same.

The post at Tejas is a good read, it just makes sense.

Happy Trails,

Paul

Dreamscape

[Busted Knuckle]

Hatt,
It's your bus, Your $, do it your way! But please go to the site I gave you and read it. Or call my Uncle who used to use regular 15-40 Rotella in his 9 charter buses and lost a couple of engines before he finally found someone to tell him why not to use the multi grade! It doesn't cool to tops of the cylinders as well as the straight 40 and most of the time will cause at least 1 or more pistons to burn a hole in the top! Guess what they'd found everytime he'd lost an engine in the past? That's right burnt pistons!!! And his mechanic (before he learned about this) told him it was ok too! (because he was to lazy to spend the time to get the right oil!). After that he never touched another of my Uncles coaches!  Or I can give ya the # to a top notch 2 stroke mechanic who's my age (I'm only 40) and he'll give ya the details! He also runs a fleet of MCI's with 8V92's ! Your welcome to call me 270-705-1139 Bryce aka Busted Knuckle 

[Abajaba]

You have gotten a lot of good information here.  I would stick with the CF-2 oil certification.  Basically if the people that build the engine tell you to not use multi-viscocity I would feel that they should know what they are talking about due to analysis and trying things out on a test stand.

Another thing that I have not seen mentioned here is a little trick that I was shown when I started driving two strokes.  When the engine is cold and you check the dip stick for oil level, don't fill the oil to the full line.  Leave it about half a gallon short of full and it won't use as much oil as if it was topped off.  That top two quarts of oil just seems like it wants to jump out of the bus and coat the road for some reason.

Abajaba

[NJT 5573]

Abajaba, Ha Ha, I tried running my 92 a little low on oil. The ddec was running shutdown codes and SHUTTING DOWN when 2 quarts low on my dipstick. Its very uncomfortable to have a computer park your ride for you like its litter. You go from ditch to ditch until you figure it out. I got fed up with the auto shutdown and had DD turn it off. I posted a recent EPA web site that linked multi weight oil and scored liners in the 1 and 2 hole on the right side engine cylinders.( Metro buses in Seattle). The source also explained how catalic mufflers were killing engine longivity in national bus fleets. I think a lot of NJT's old buses were catalic.

[niles500]

That's amazing - one of the guys at ABC in Garden Grove had a nice Eagle conversion at one time w/ a 6 or 8v92 - he should know better - let the jerk that told you that put it in writing on comapny letterhed and guaranty his ridiculous claim - he'll probasbly decline the offer - if not his boss will - listen to the experienced people on the board, the factory specs, common sense, etc.  and dump that multi-weight oil - happy bussing

[Barn Owl]

There is no second guessing this one. Put the 40wt in! I would not be happy having to dump $100 of multi wt. oil either, but it doesn't belong in the DD2S. Unless DD comes out with new recommendations, which seems unlikely, I will only use what they recommend.

[RJ]

Hyatt -

Didn't know you'd changed the oil yourself.

But I still stand by my original comments:  Take a copy of the Detroit publication I gave you the link for into the General Manager and request a refund for the oil.

If he still insists that the multi-viscosity is OK, have him put it in writing on the company letterhead, then forward copies to Detroit and to his boss at ABC in MN with a cover letter.

As I said before, Clancy Cornell has spent a LOT of time and effort building ABC's reputation - he will set this guy straight.


It has NOTHING to do with the detergents in the newer oils.  That's a fallacy.  Here's some basic info on multi-viscosity oil from a Google search:



WEIGHTS
The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use.

MULTI-VISCOSITY OILS
Multi viscosity oils have polymers added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi-viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi-grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter, base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter; in the summer, the highest temperature you expect.

10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. The polymers can shear and burn, forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.   Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.


Your engine won't die with this oil in it, but plan on putting the correct oil in at your next change.

But definitely try to get your money back from ABC!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[pvcces]

Russ, thanks for the detailed explanation of multiweight oils. It was an eye opener!

Tom Caffrey

[larryc]

This subject was covered in depth in January but I just came across this article in the March 2007 issue of Bus Ride that you might be interested in:

http://www.busride.com/Page.cfm/PageID/8607

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Thanks Larry.  That article was a real eye opener.  I was fascinated by the article after getting the runaround at ABC in Garden Grove.

As it turns out, (I started this forum) I took a copy of the DD 2-Cycle Spec sheet that was posted on this forum and I also called the 2-Cycle Experts at DD and they confirmed, that you should NEVER put multi-viscosity oil in their 2-Cycle engines and they too sent me additional documentation.  I then personally went to ABC in Garden Grove and talked to the General Manager Roman Kornal and discussed the 10W-40 oil his people recommend for my 8V92.  He disagreed with the experts at DD, and you folks who responded to this question which I also showed him, and says he never has had a problem with using multi-viscosity oil in ANY of his engines, and he also added they run several busses with several different engines including 2-Cycle DD engines.  He also added, you can't believe what those people on this bus forum tell you.  Apparently, you folks have no credibility according to Roman.

He did however, after talking to some of his mechanics, agree to give me my money back for the oil.  He also said he would give me my money back for the new filter I had to buy to replace the one with the 10W-40 oil in it, which was also recommended by the DD experts.  I had to go home and bring them the 3 extra gallons of 10W-40 oil which I bought (10 Gals total) as their parts department didn't know how much it would take.  Roman insured me that he would be there the following day at 4:30 to ensure I get my money back for the oil and the filter.

The next day when I went back at the time we agreed on, I asked for Roman and he was gone for the day.  He was not there as he said he promised me the day before.  I went to the parts department and the guy at the counter didn't know anything about the deal I made with Roman and wouldn't refund my money.  I left the oil (and got a receipt for the oil) and he said he would talk to Roman when he came in the following day and credit my credit card for the oil and filter.  A week later, I got a receipt for credit for the oil but not the filter as Roman promised.  I decided not to go back and argue about the filter as it takes quite a bit of time to get waited on at their service counter and decided it is not worth the effort.

Bottom line, I did get my money back for the oil but not the filter.  The General Manager disagreed with what the DD 2-Cycle experts say and the documentation DD sent me  which I showed him.  BTW, they didn't even have any 40W oil on the premises which I tried to buy, but they did have about 50 busses on the lot, and several of them had 2-Cycle engines in them. 

However, that is only MY experience, and my first one at that as this is my first bus.  ABC Bus Company has been in existence for a several years and the Garden Grove location seems to run a very professional operation (and Roman is a very nice and fair guy) and they are even expanding to a new and larger building in a few months with a much larger lot, so for the most part, they must be a reputable company.  You can't build a company this large and successful without keeping your customers happy.   I think I just had one bad experience and hope nobody else has an experience like this.  I will continue to do business with them, but I definitely wouldn't buy a used 2-Cycle engine from them if I ever need one and they definately won't be changing my oil.  I have also heard that the BIG MAN that runs all of the ABC Bus Companies tries very hard to provide his customers with superior service.  I would be interested in his opinion on this matter, as I am sure this is not his typical M.O.

Gary

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

BTW, I haven't been successful in finding straight 40W oil in this area (Anaheim CA).  I haven't checked with NAPA yet as one of my friends suggested because I haven't had time to find a local store.   I had a good deal on DELO-400, but I have since learned that that oil is no longer recommended for the 2-Cycle engines as per the folks at DD.  I did check at two Home Depot stores as was recommended by someone in this thread, but I found out me they no longer carry oil.

If I can't find a local NAPA dealer, I will have to drive 45 miles to the local DD dealer and perhaps pay a premium price.  Apparently most auto parts stores don't carry single weight oil anymore.

Any suggestions?

Gary