Could use wheel lug replacement tips

Gordie Allen · May 23, 2013, 07:01:19 AM

I have a couple of stripped wheel lugs on my 4104. I'm going to replace all lugs, strip and repaint wheels. Any tips to make the job easier?

akroyaleagle · May 23, 2013, 07:30:58 AM

If you are replacing the wheel studs, once the hub is off, just knock them out to the inside.

Insert the new studs and pull them in with the nut and spacers as needed.

Make sure the thread is correct. There are right and left threads on most large vehicles.
If they are left, there should be an L stamped on the nut end. Take your old ones in when going after
the new ones so they can be matched.

They should be available at any truck or trailer supply.

Good Luck,

bevans6 · May 23, 2013, 07:33:50 AM

If the wheels are typical Budd wheels, you can probably find them brand new for about $100 or so each. I wouldn't strip and paint a wheel for $100 personally, but I guess you need to add the aggravation of moving the tires over too. Got nothing on the studs, sorry. Some say you can do them with the hubs on the bus, some say take the hubs off and use a press.

Brian

Boomer · May 23, 2013, 08:20:04 AM

You can install new studs without removing the hub but if you don't know the condition of your bearings I would pull and inspect/replace. Then you get new seals and know what shape everything is in. As Joe said you can pull in the press in type with the lug nut (put a washer behind it while doing this) and a 1" air gun. New powder coated wheels can be had (chinese) for around 100.00 but beware, they may not balance without too much weight. Alum wheels much better.

Sam 4106 · May 23, 2013, 08:46:22 AM

If you are going to the work and expense of changing the studs, consider using longer studs in the event that you will ever want aluminum wheels. I sandblasted and painted the wheels on our GM 4106 using quality primer and paint. The paint didn't last long once it was exposed to road salt. My suggestion would be to install longer studs and aluminum wheels. If you don't want or like aluminum wheels then have your stripped wheels powder coated. YMMV

Good luck, Sam

gus · May 23, 2013, 02:12:43 PM

4104s have both Al and steel rear hubs. Early 4104s had Al rear hubs, don't know about fronts.

Al hubs are thicker and require longer studs. Removal is much more difficult with Al hubs. Lots of penetrating oil and some heating of the hub is necessary, otherwise a tremendous press is needed. Pounding with a sledge will not help and could crack the hub. Been there, won't ever do it again!!

Steel is supposedly easier but I don't have first hand experience with steel.

Al wheels are a pain on the rear because of valve access through those tiny holes, not so bad on the front. I removed two of mine and will remove the other two soon. The polished outsides look great but the insides corrode and look like h....! Also the beads corrode inside and leak. Been there too.

White painted steel wheels are the best and easiest to maintain. If they get dirty I just clean and respray. Don't see any need for stripping unless the paint is awfully thick.

joel_newton · May 25, 2013, 09:25:48 AM

Just replaced the studs on my front wheels. PO installed aluminum rims with original studs which are too short. $106 for twenty studs. Removed hub and beat first stud out. Then went to HF and picked up 20T press. Made arbors out of 1 1/2 pipe. A little tricky balancing the hub on the pipe keeping it level/square but it was a LOT easier. A little dab of never seize on the ribs also seems to help inserting the new stud.

If the brake drum won't come off the hub, heat the around drum a couple of inches from hub with a torch. A good smack with a dead-blow and the drum pops right off.

bevans6 · May 25, 2013, 12:43:23 PM

Well, if we are talking about removing brake drums and hitting things with hammers...

I just changed the oil seals on my front hubs. Drums are held on with five slot head countersunk screws, 1/2" X 13 thread. LGI (last guy in) put them back nice and tight, all nice and rusty as they were, with no anti-seize. Of 10 screws, one came out. I tried all the usual tricks, heat, penetrating oil, impact driver, hammer and chisel, finally drilled them out. First side I drilled them out on the bus, took the drum off and then took the hub off, drilled out the rest of the screws from the hub on my drill press and chased the threads with a tap. On the second side, having figured out how to take the hub off on the first side I took the hub and the brake drum off as one piece (which is very heavy, rig a support), and put the whole thing on my drill press to drill out the screws...

The first part of the job took around a morning per side. Changing the seal took around five minutes... A supposedly relatively easy job took two days... Oh well, lesson learned. I figured this little side story was a little relevant since the second step in changing studs is remove brake drum...

Brian

luvrbus · May 25, 2013, 01:05:50 PM

Which model of GM have nuts holding the studs ? or was that some other make whatever it was a PITA

bevans6 · May 25, 2013, 01:51:26 PM

MCI has nuts on the back holding the studs.

Brian

Sam 4106 · May 25, 2013, 03:09:00 PM

Brian,

Why do you have to take the drums off the hub to replace the studs?

Thanks, Sam

bevans6 · May 25, 2013, 04:34:01 PM

You need to take the drums off of an MCI to get at the nuts that hold the studs in to the hub. MCI studs have a large nut on the back side of the stud that pulls it into the hub. On buses with hubs with pressed in studs, you need to take the drum off to get to the studs themselves. Step two of any deal involving the studs is take off the drum. Step one is take off the wheel...

Now, I can imagine finding ways to the the job without taking the drum off, but I don't think it's the easiest way to do the job right. With pressed in studs you usually can pull the studs in with the reversed wheel nut trick, but I have stretched studs doing that. I like to press them in from the back with a press.

Brian

Sam 4106 · May 25, 2013, 05:50:34 PM

Brian,

I'm still confused! You had the hub off the bus to replace the hub seal. If you had wanted to replace the studs with the hub off, why would you need to remove the drum? And, why did you have to remove the drum to replace the hub seal? The only time I replaced a hub seal I didn't have to remove the drum from the hub. Nor did I have to remove the drum from the hub, hub was already off the bus, to replace a stud. I made a jig to bolt to the hub, with the drum still on the hub, and used my cherry picker to hold the assembly for removal. Very easy to align the hub with the axle, for reassembly, using the cherry picker. Another way to handle a hub/drum assembly is with a jig bolted to the lifting plate of a floor jack. I'm too weak to be able to lift and position a hub/drum assembly by hand. I used my floor jack to lift the drum when I had to replace one recently, too.

Thanks, Sam

luvrbus · May 25, 2013, 06:00:43 PM

I always remove the drum also Sam to replace the studs make it's a lot easier to handle in the press for me why Brian did to replace the seals only he knows but sure he had reason could be he likes to press the seal in and not use the old hammer method

Fwiw I never drill the hold down slotted screws out I just torch the heads off pop the drum off and spray pb then remove the rest with a pair of vise grips drilling doesn't do much for me

bevans6 · May 26, 2013, 03:44:34 AM

Sam, I guess I don't like to take short cuts when I can do things right, at least the way I think is right. I could never leave the drum on with all the fixing screws seized because I'd be about guaranteeing that I couldn't service the brakes properly with a drum that couldn't come off. Now I will admit that if you took the hub and drum off the bus together you could indeed change the hub seal and the studs without taking the drum off the hub.

Clifford, I thought of torching the heads off but the first side I did the whole inside of the brakes was wet with oil so I was afraid of setting it on fire. The second side I had already proven the drilling out method so I stuck with it.

Brian