Series 60 in a 05 Eagle

[rv_safetyman]

BK, now you are on the same list as Clifford

I need to clarify part of an earlier post (modified it).  When I said that I got 60K miles out of the first Series 60 I need to clarify that mileage was on top of the original miles (think about 700K).  There were signs that the truck/engine had not received the best care.  Unfortunately, it was the only one available at the time.

The second engine had a DD rebuild about 240K ago.  Got to talk to the owner of the truck.  He sent me a copy of the receipt.  I also contacted the dealer who did the rebuild and he sent me the service record for the truck - an owner/operator truck.

I noted on the receipt that they had not replaced the bull gear.  I took one of the timing cover plates off and checked side movement (none detected).  I will make that check periodically. 

There are several Eagles with the M11/ISM and the owners are very satisfied.  The ones that I am aware of use an HT740 and gear with the 3.36 rear end ratio.

Jim

[luvrbus]

In today's converted bus market why would one even attempt a engine swap is beyond me the bank here in Anahuac Tx sold a 1998 XLL Prevost Vantare conversion 59,240 mile kept inside the rice farmers barn it's entire life clean coach all the goodies needed about 8 grand in tires the high dollar Michelins 315's were rotten 

Only 4 bidders including mine the bank let it go for 43,125.00 dollars to another rice farmer his bid was over 12 grand higher than the next bidder little over 20,000 higher than mine 

At that price why would anyone want the pain and agony of engine conversion in a older bus ? they are out there just dig deep and pay attention to your local paper that is where one finds the bargains I have learned over the years

[Oonrahnjay]

Geoff, depends on who you ask .  Simple answer is Yes.  Clifford gives me a hard time about my fuel saving calculations that don't offset the need to buy a second Series 60 . 

    Hey, if you buy a second Series 60, you double your fuel savings right?  Sounds like a good plan to me.   

BH  NC   USA

[Geoff]

Jim--

Keep on bussin!


--Geoff

[rv_safetyman]

Jim--

Keep on bussin!


--Geoff

Suspect that was not a huge endorsement on my engine conversion .

Jim

[luvrbus]

 It wasn't too bad coming from a 2 stroke guy Jim,

Ot but yesterday when Cole and I went to visit friends at Stewart and Stevenson in Houston I decided fast the DD13 and DD15 would not be in my future those things were lined up like people at a single porta/can at a county fair scattered all over the shop

[twostick]

Most of the problems with those new engines is emission controls related, EGR valves, coolers, DPF etc. If you could buy one without all the junk on it I think they would be a pretty good unit. Common rail injection quiets them down considerably.

Kevin

[Sam 4106]

luvrbus,

You ask "....why would one even attempt a engine swap...."? I think I can answer that. A lot of us posters on this board like to do projects, some smaller, some larger. If you like your current bus, it meets your needs except for the power train, and you enjoy projects, it makes sense to me. From reading all your posts for several years, I think you are in the category of enjoying projects. It seems I read recently that you are doing an engine swap yourself in an H Prevost, putting a C15 in where there was a Series 60. I know you could afford to buy a complete bus if you chose to. So, is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Just wondering!

Good luck, Sam

[TomC]

Since I work with Freightliner and the Detroit DD13, 15, 16, I can give you first hand experience. First of all-it is the most fuel efficient engine made, period. Especially now since they've revised the DD15 and taken the turbo compounder off (a second turbo gear driven into the engine that creates up to 50hp for free on a hill climb from exhaust pressure) and added a cluthched thermostatically controlled water pump (that stays on if the clutch fails) since it was found the water pump takes up to 5hp to run. The engineers found that yes the turbo compounder saved fuel when under full throttle, but all other times it actually draws horsepower. So taking it off, the engine is actually more fuel efficient overall. The turbo compounder remains on the DD16 that covers 475hp-600hp and 1750-2050lb/ft torque.

Yes there are a lot of sensers, EGR cooler, on the engine. And the DD engines are sensitive to how you change the oil-but most of those issues have been addressed. The big thing now is seeing head gasket problems since at one corner of the head, there is a head bolt "missing" creating a weakness. And at the engine assembly plant, the head is installed with a hydraulic torquing machine that torques all bolts at the same time. Hence, once the head is removed, it is hard to duplicate the same clamping forces-thus creating head leaks within only a few thousand miles later.

Bottom line-most reliable engine made and gets the best fuel mileage-the pre 2002 Series 60. Cummins ISM, Caterpillar C12 without EGR are excellent engines too. Surprisingly-the Series 50 4 cylinder is also an excellent engine-just have to have the proper soft engine mounts and replace the balancing shafts every 300k mi. Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

The bus is only 9 years old 2002 titled as 2004,  Sam the 14L 60 series has a hole in the side you can throw a basket ball through not like I am starting from scratch for the piping and other goodies more of a replacement I have a 14l- 60 series I could go back but I like yellow paint 

The C-15 won't require much fabrication different from the 60 series as far as I can see but I am checking with the emissions  people we are getting almost as bad in Az as CA about changing engines no need for the people to cut a hole in my series 60 it is already there lol

[TomC]

The Caterpillar 3406/C15 with single turbocharger are good engines. My preference is the 3406 mechanically injected (just happens to be the engine in my truck conversion). I think that engine is the most reliable engine ever made-not necessarily the most fuel efficient-but still better on fuel then a 2 stroke (about the same as a 8V-92TA DDEC). Like the Series 60, Cummins NTC/N14 or ISX15, the 3406/C15 is a big block and big physically.

Still the medium blocks like the Cummins M11/ISM, Caterpillar C12, (Detroit didn't make a smaller version and I would not suggest the Mercedes-Benz 4000 [which is a remade over Series 55]) are a better size for bus conversion and have almost the same power. Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

Without a doubt the Cat 3406-425hp was a tough engine, drivers could lug one down to 900 rpm put the foot to it without changing gears, watch the black smoke roll and hang on it was off to races with 80,000 lbs on it's tail, 

The 3408 would haul a load also but pouring fuel in it was a big problem mine never got more than 4mpg loaded or empty when fuel was less than .50 cents a gal monster of a engine in a truck

[Seangie]

Pic of a 60 in an Eagle for inspiration.

Picture taken in an undisclosed location west of lake mead at one of the best bus garages in the desert.

I don't know who the owner of the bus was but it was pretty. (Van may know)

-Sean

www.herdofturtles.org
1984 Eagle Model 10S

[TomC]

Now if that were either the Cummins ISM or Caterpillar C12, the top of the engine would be about where the site glass is on the power steering reservoir. Good Luck, TomC

[Van]

Pic of a 60 in an Eagle for inspiration.

Picture taken in an undisclosed location west of lake mead at one of the best bus garages in the desert.

I don't know who the owner of the bus was but it was pretty. (Van may know)

-Sean

[url=http://www.herdofturtles.org]www.herdofturtles.org [/URL]
1984 Eagle Model 10S

Sean, this is a model 01 Sundance conversion owned by a very nice couple from the Parump Nv area. Very nice set up!