Another Fuel Price Complaint

[Van]

N. las vegas diesel 3.79/gas 3.12, been awhile since I seen diesel below 4 bucs

[scanzel]

Here is Connecticut gas at a local Citgo 3.45, diesel went down to 4.19 from 4.25. And we all know that Connecticut is the tax me to death state so that is why our gas never really drops much. High gas/diesel tax. And the major trucks stops, well they rape you totally over gas and diesel.

[RickB]

The reason for higher diesel prices is ULSD. But it's not because we can't keep up with the nations supply, it's because only one nation that agreed to the Kyoto accord actually retooled their refineries to make ULSD. That would be the United States.

So, we champion clean air and develop the technology to make it happen and not one other country that signed the accord is capable or interested in refining the product we all signed on to use. We are literally competing with Japan, France, Germany and a bunch of other folks for our refined ULSD. The price for fuel for decades was already so high due to taxes that the taxpayers of most of these European countries are "used" to the added costs. In other words, their governments convinced them that higher fuel prices are just normal. Despite proven adequate supplies. It's pretty clear to everyone that we are far from running out of oil so big oil is betting that these prices will seem like a new normal for us.

I'm convinced that if we found that the entire North American Continent was sitting on top of a limitless supply of oil prices would not retreat in any meaningful way (look at North dakota for proof of that) because big oil has found out what it's worth to us.

That, my friends, is a losing hand in poker. They called our bluff and we blinked. The real "problem" for big oil??? Finding a place to store 3 or 4 million unplanned for barrels of oil coming out of North Dakota a day.

Bamboozled.

Rick

[buswarrior]

In the whole capitalism vs socialism discussion that crops up from time to time...

Where does a complaint about "charging what the market will bear" fit in?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[RickB]

Bus Warrior,

That is exactly what has happened here. Oil execs found a new "normal" for what the market will bear when we blinked. Unfortunately, it's a touchy subject because capitalism in this case, like it or not, has basically ended using our buses in any meaningful ways. It's a big change for some of us and some of us don't like it. I will say it's refreshing to hear someone actually say what a thing is when it comes to prices. The whole supply/demand thing and it's not speculation argument was just maddening to me. These guys put futures out there to explore what we would be willing to pay if our jobs and families depended on us to get to work and back and I bet they are as surprised as we are that we would agree to pay these prices without gathering consensus and boycotting their products or finding a way to regulate them. I'm not a tree hugger environmentalist extremist but I'd like to find an alternative fuel so we can give big oil the finger. Let your market bear that British Petroleum.
My partner. a hedge fund manager said to me once. The economy is rock. Money is water. Water will always find a way to either crack rock or find a new path around it. No emotions, no cries for perceived justice or lack thereof will change that. Just a wearing away to a new normal. His philosophy has certainly worked out well for his family. Wish I could drive my bus more is all I know...

[TomC]

I'm for capitalism as much as anyone else. But-since petroleum, gasoline, Diesel runs our country, effects out economy, our way of life-in other words it effects every aspect of our lives. This is why I believe petroleum should be run by the government like it is in Mexico. Then you know exactly what the price of fuel is no matter what section of the country is in-the government will announce when a price rise is imminent-which would make for no surprises and the ability to plan your immediate future. But-of course that won't ever happen. Good Luck, TomC

[Lin]

Further, the concept of capitalism says that competition will regulate prices to the benefit of the consumer.  Here we are dealing with price fixing; it is anti-capitalism.

[belfert]

Oil consumption in the USA has already dropped pretty significantly in the last four or five years.  The economy is causing less use of fuel, and folks are buying higher MPG vehicles as vehicles are replaced.  There are predictions by 2020 that gasoline consumption in the USA will have dropped upwards of 20% even as population increases.

People have certainly cut back on driving as fuel prices have increased, but fuel prices have been high for so long that budgets have been adjusted for the higher costs and I think folks are starting to drive more again.

[lvmci]

Hi All, and what about subsidies for the oil companies, much bigger tab than welfare or unemployment, corporate welfare is maddening to me, look for milk to double soon, minipulating by large corportations of what at one time was a good idea, lvmci...

[belfert]

Hi All, and what about subsidies for the oil companies, much bigger tab than welfare or unemployment, corporate welfare is maddening to me, look for milk to double soon, minipulating by large corportations of what at one time was a good idea, lvmci...

The estimate of government welfare spending between federal and state spending is as high as $1 trillion a year.  The United States as a whole spends approximately $600 billion on raw unrefined oil.  I don't see any possible way that government spending to subsidize oil is anywhere near $1 trillion a year.

[luvrbus]

3.19 a gallon today in Phoenix on 44th (Tatum)

[lvmci]

Hi All, $3.72 a gallon diesel west side of LV. As for welfare, there are layers of corporate welfare and benefits specific to industries, won by lobbying and cooperative legislators specifically on federal level, but also on state and local levels. Personal welfare and unemployment is lobbyed by local government and a few organizations not usually the unions, although in hard times they have assisted that lobbying effort. Now my experience is specific to Nevada, and I had been a lobbyest for a specific purpose, to change the wording on a law to allow a television show to come to LV that would employ 75 locals on 3 occasions. But I was given assistance by casino lobbiest with introductions to legislators I did not know, and these shows would deffineitly benefit that resort, but I was able to view the unvarnished lobbying effort by coal, casino & mining interests, there are so many bills that turn into laws, that have been altered or wording added to benefit the most powerful of the lobbying corporations, I don't think there is a way to actually calculate the governments direct or indirect benefits to a major corporation outside of that firms own accounting, I personally have a CNG truck and plann on leasing a Volt next year in an attempt to limit my exposure to gas stations for work and play. just my humble opinion, based on my own experiences, lvmci...

[Rick 74 MC-8]

Lvmci
Just Google ALEC


                    Rick 74 MC-8

[luvrbus]

Like it or believe it or not our diesel fuel has always been subsidized in the form of tax breaks write your rep in DC  don't blame the oil companies the best is yet to come $6.00 + a gal predicted for the end of 2013 

State run oil companies how about 10 bucks a day labor like Mexico Tom C

good luck

[lvmci]

Hi All & happy holidays, news mentioned gasoline under $3 in town someplace in LV. Here's the thing, there hasn't been a tax change in Nevada or Clark county, concerning fuel in a while that would explain a change of $4 gas to $3 gas in as many months. Nevada legislature meets every 2 years. So, this leads you to think that this is profit takkng, as I said before, & sorry to repeat it again, its the frog in the pan syndrome, you turn up the heat gradually then back down, then gradually higher yet, the frog never notices until its cooked, welcome to our big pond, ribbet! Lvmci...