Snow and Ice driving tips

NJT 5573 · January 13, 2007, 06:28:34 PM

I've got a lifetime of experience in the 18 wheeler on the ice and only a few thousand in the 3 axle coach. I've never been in a skid w/the coach. Anyone out there tell me what to expect. Years ago, before the police could get up the mountains I could run most all the western mountain passes with out chains and not spin out. Those drivers were 17,000 lb per driver. My coach is right at 20,000 on the driver. Do I really need the chains or will it go over the hill. Has anyone ever driven with the automatic chains on a coach?

bobofthenorth · January 13, 2007, 07:51:29 PM

A couple of years ago we came down 89 toward Flagstaff meeting trucks wearing the jewellry. I couldn't find my chains before I left home so I didn't have any on. I'm not sure I would have put them on if I'd had them but it sure would have felt better to know they were in the bay. I never felt like I was on the edge but I've got a 10 spd too so I could always be in the right gear. It might have been different if I had a slushbox that picked a bad time to pull a shift. I've got pretty aggressive treads on the drivers & I lifted the tags that time.

TomC · January 13, 2007, 11:19:31 PM

I drove truck for 21 years and never hung one pound of chains. If it was that bad, I would just wait till it got better. Only once did I have to wait more than one day (two days was the max). If you have to drive in the snow (I realize you have to if you're going skiing), then the automatic chains work great-but under 30mph. Many school districts use them, and I figure if they're good enough for school buses.... Good Luck, TomC

bobofthenorth · January 14, 2007, 07:52:37 AM

I just learned something. I had never heard of auto chains. Anyone know anything about the different manufacturers? And approximate price points? I'm a big fan of pulling over when it gets that bad but on the other hand, I live where the weather is bad for about 8 months out of the year and REALLY bad for 4 months. And sometimes you get caught in a situation.

NJT 5573 · January 14, 2007, 09:26:55 AM

Bob, the only drawback I know for the auto chains is cost. Installed they are over $2000.00. onspot.com and insta-chain.com are the two major manufacturers that I know of. I believe their products are very simular. The only way I'll probably have them is if I can find a set used off a school bus,(common in my area of Seattle) or a fire truck. They are air operated from the drivers seat. They claim you can skid, hit the button and recover. They will drop that fast. Sure would be cool to blow off all the chain up signs. Ah for the good old days!

Torquester · January 14, 2007, 10:16:48 AM

Information and pictures here: http://www.onspot.com/ (Onspot) and here: http://www.rudchain.com/snow/roto1.htm (Rud)

My opinion only:

Background; I have used, installed and maintained both of the above brands on school busses.

Positive; easy to use, reasonable traction gains in snow less than 4" or in icy and snow packed conditions, some peace of mind having extra traction available at the flip of a switch, can be engaged even after you are stuck (try that with a regular tire chain).

Negative; expensive (I mean freakin' pricey), high maintenance (cost per mile of use), noisey, even when not in use (jingle jangle all of the time when hanging on the drive axle), false sense of security leads operators into more problems than those without, high maintainance (did I say that before) just another item to maintain, the traction that these chains provide is a mere fraction of that provided by standard tire chains.

I would install a set of these on my coach if I found a set real cheap. I am not sure if they would fit my coach or many other parlor coaches because of clearance issues. If I did get a set mounted on my coach I would remove the chain wheels during the summer months so I wouldn't have to listen to them. As far as claims about engaging them while the vehicle is in a skid

I would like to see someone in a slide who has time to do anything other than trying to regain control of the vehicle with standard vehicle control inputs.

hth, Tq

bobofthenorth · January 14, 2007, 02:55:52 PM

I wondered about the clearance thing - they looked pretty low on the video I looked at this morning & that was on a tandem truck. I guess the clearance to the bottom of the axle has to be the same if the tire size is the same but there's a lot of "stuff" under the bus. I think I'll stick to my low tech system - a set of singles coiled in a plastic pail and sitting in the front bay.

Torquester · January 14, 2007, 06:18:03 PM

Bob,

Just a reminder about single chains on a dual drive....spin it and the inside tire takes the load off of the chain. This can leave you stuck. Chains on both = tank like traction.

fwiw, Tq

buswarrior · January 14, 2007, 07:08:25 PM

Hello all.

A bus is blessed with good weight on the drives, and that's all the weight it has to deal with.

An 18 wheeler has to drag a further batch of undriven axles with all sorts of dead weight on them, which leads to traction problems for the driven axles, can't get enough weight on them for the load needed to be pulled, for the traction available.

Buses rarely find themselves in a situation where chaining up will fix anything. Usually stuck beyond self help at this point.

I've driven both, and I'll take a bus in a snowstorm, over an 18 wheeler, and over the four wheel drive Suburban.

Lots of go, as stable through the drifts and ruts as the day is long, stopping compromised like everything else.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

RJ · January 15, 2007, 07:37:08 AM

I'll throw in my two cents worth here:

In CA, the DOT/CHP frequently will put up the "chains required" signs at the least little flurry. Not because chains are really necessary, but to slow down the four-wheelers!

Worst offenders? Volvo drivers w/ skis on top. . .

Buses are only required to install chains on the outside rear drive axle dual - virtual nightmare to try and install double chains, due to space issues.

Back in my charter days, I could chain a bus faster than I could chain a car - trick was having them laid out, ready-to-go, in the back baggage bin. (These were the high-dollar cam-lock type, btw)

Since most here are not using their coach in revenue service, parking and waiting out the storm is easily done, going south to avoid altogether is even better.

Best driving tip I ever got for driving in snow/ice came from a 30-year Greyhound vet: "Drive like you've got a raw egg strapped to the bottom of your right shoe, and don't break the egg!"

FWIW & HTH. . .

John Z · January 15, 2007, 07:52:03 AM

Since most here are not using their coach in revenue service, parking and waiting out the storm is easily done, going south to avoid altogether is even better.

Russ, you nailed it as far as i am concerned. After spending my life in northern Minn, i have had all i need of winter. That is the motive for buying my coach. "Snow ahead? Find a place to park and put on the coffee!"

TomC · January 15, 2007, 08:09:22 AM

I had this happen more times then I can remember. Two instances- on I-10 going west through the Tex hill country and it is raining with the temp dropping. Temp got to 28 and I got off at the next truck stop since water freezes on the road at 28 (even though I had time left to drive more). We had freezing rain that night and ice on the road. Second was again coming west, this time into Amarillo and it was starting to snow. Since I was going to turn right up 287 to Denver, I knew it would only get worse, so pulled into the truck stop. Next day slept in, woke up at 9 and it was a blazingly beautiful day with the roads just about dry. In both instance, the next day saw many wrecks and trucks in the ditch. Never understood why truck drivers "have to go", when getting in a wreck is the worst, rather than being a few hours late.

Unless you are going to the ski slopes or purposely to a wintery area-just get off the roads well before it gets snow chain bad-everyone will be much happier for your choice. Good Luck, TomC

Slow Rider · January 15, 2007, 10:25:57 AM

Tom, I believe the reason a lot of truck drivers keep going instead of being a few hours late has to do with getting fired. My father was let go from a company after he called and told them the interstate he was on was closed. He even put the Highway Patrol officer on the phone. The dispatcher said he didn't care. A supervisor got on the line and said the same thing.

After the road was re-opened he went home and found a different company to work for. The companies don't care. The turnover rate in the trucking industry is borderline 100%. If a load doesn't arrive on time because the driver just doesn't make it, there often penalties involved. If the load doesn't arrive because the the truck was involved in an accident the insurance will cover any costs.

From the trucking companies view it is better for the load to be involved in a wreck than the company pay the fines for a late delivery. So most of those drivers who keep going realize the risk. But they have families to care for and do the best they can.

Frank

trailblazer2 · January 15, 2007, 06:24:03 PM

As a retired Greyhound driver ,the best advise I can give you,is watch out for that front end sskid! These units are great for rear traction(as long as its not ice);but the fronts will skid because of the great traction/and weight ratio of the rear. I have had several to slid on a wet road alone! If you have good tread on the drive axle,and push comes to shove,you might want to pick up your tags.
Bill

Dallas · January 15, 2007, 07:22:15 PM

Quote from: trailblazer2 on January 15, 2007, 06:24:03 PM
As a retired Greyhound driver ,the best advise I can give you,is watch out for that front end sskid! These units are great for rear traction(as long as its not ice);but the fronts will skid because of the great traction/and weight ratio of the rear. I have had several to slid on a wet road alone! If you have good tread on the drive axle,and push comes to shove,you might want to pick up your tags.
Bill

Thanks, Bill.

That's good information.

Dallas