OT?: Brain Teaser

[Clarke Echols]

Here is a "real world" observed phenomenon.  Now to see who can figure out what's going on. :-)

Enjoy...

In Laramie, Wyoming, a friend when he lived there  discovered his garden hose (black or dark
grey in color) contained ice one morning early, even though it was summertime and the low for
the night was no colder than 35 degrees (F).

We all know that water freezes at 32 degrees F, not 35.  So how did it freeze.  There were no
clouds, if that matters.  Please explain.

We'll see where this goes, then I'll present the answer if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Clarke

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

There was still snow on the ground from winter which, then froze the hose....??

Nick-

[Clarke Echols]

There was still snow on the ground from winter which, then froze the hose....??

Nick-

Nope.  It was summertime and the snow is usually gone well before June.  The temperature was no
colder than 35 degrees F.

CE

[pete81eaglefanasty]

At ground level, like on the ground is cooler than higher up.


          Pete & Jean
           Fantasy

[NewbeeMC9]

I've already had my glass of milk for the night so without much energy or thought, I'll guess a combination between radiant (since the dark color and clear sky) and altitude ( i recall that the lower atmospheric pressure lowers boiling temp but i dont recal if it raises or lowers freezing temp)

[RTS/Daytona]

Clarke

see--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(molecule)

Hot ice
Hot ice is the name given to another surprising phenomenon in which water at room temperature can be turned into ice that remains at room temperature by supplying an electric field on the order of 10,000,000 volts per meter......

Pete RTS/Daytona

[bobadame]

I think the color of the hose is the key.  I think it's called black body radiation phenomena. The heat from the water radiates into outer space? It's really cold out there.

[TomC]

Windy for a wind chill affect?  Good Luck, TomC

[akbusguy2000]

Possibilities:

1.  Early morning hailstorm covered the hose and melted first.

2.  Hose was covered with morning dew, which evaporated rapidly when hit by the sun - refrigeration effect drew sufficient  heat from the hose to cause it to freeze.

3.  Aliens took it to the mother ship for examination and it got frozen before they could get it back.


tg

[WEC4104]

It is a really strong hose and is under 1500+ psi of pressure, which would sufficiently elevate the freezing point of the water

But seriously, I'll subscribe to the black body radiation theory.

WEC4104

[Melbo]

Well we all remember from high school physics that water freezes at 32 degrees at sea level. The water as it turns to ice expands but I don't remember the volume change but I believe it is 10 percent expansion. The air pressure below sea level will cause the ice not to form at 32 degrees because it cannot over come the air pressure and expand until the temperature is even lower than 32 degrees. Now we have moved to Laramie WY which would have a higher than sea level altitude and therefore less air pressure allowing the ice to form at a higher temp than the fore mentioned 32 degrees. I don't believe that the change in altitude alone can account for the ice formation. You would also have to introduce the black body radiation that has already been mentioned. It happens particularly when the humidity is low as in the desert and as near as I understand it ( THIS COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ) ( but the effect is real ) the temp of an object will begin to drop when the sun goes down and will continue to drop ( actually the object is giving up it's heat ) even to the point where the temp of the body is below the air temp -- kind of like a going too fast and missing the exit ramp -- I also don't remember how far the temp can drop but I remember being impressed by the amount and the person who described this to me worked for search and rescue here in the desert southwest.

Just my guess

Melbo

[FloridaCliff]

It depends on the amount of humidity in the air.

If the air temp F' is in the 30's and the wetbulb temp is below freezing, ice or snow will form.

Cliff

[pvcces]

Clarke, radiated heat into space will cause this effect. If the humidity is low, horizontal surfaces can get the better part of 10 degrees cooler that the air does. Frost can form easily at temperatures above freezing.

When we were near Quartzsite and the afternoon temperature was around 80 degrees, I aimed our IR gun straight up into a cloudless sky and got a reading of -51 F.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey

[bobadame]

I'll try to clean up my answer/ guess. Laramie is at about 7200 feet above sea level. The earths atmosphere is an insulating layer that helps to keep heat from escaping. The atmosphere is relatively thin in Laramie. Clouds also keep the night warmer. Heat travels in various ways, through conduction, convection and radiation. The night that the water froze in the hose was a clear night. Heat always moves toward cold. The temperature in outer space is absolutely cold or as cold as can be I suppose because the heat sources are far away and far apart. Also there is little there to absorb and retain heat, like the earth. So the heat from the water in the hose radiated toward outer space enough to freeze.

This guess comes from an old brain that doesn't read much and never took a physics class.

[DrivingMissLazy]

Hey Clarke, I think it is about time you came up with an answer!!!

Here is a "real world" observed phenomenon.  Now to see who can figure out what's going on. :-)


Enjoy...

In Laramie, Wyoming, a friend when he lived there  discovered his garden hose (black or dark
grey in color) contained ice one morning early, even though it was summertime and the low for
the night was no colder than 35 degrees (F).

We all know that water freezes at 32 degrees F, not 35.  So how did it freeze.  There were no
clouds, if that matters.  Please explain.

We'll see where this goes, then I'll present the answer if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Clarke