Question on 8V71

[buddyten]

Hello Friends:
A few weeks ago, was having our bus serviced.   We had complained about some excessive oil usage, and had the mechanics check it out.   It was their opinion that the blower needs rebuilding.   That particular shop is a Mack/Volvo dealership, and do not want to do the work 'cause they dont have any of their mechanics that are Detroit people (especially for the older 2 cycles).   They recommended another shop to do the actual dismantle/reinstalation/etc.   There is a diesel service here in town that we talked to that will actually rebuild the blower for approx $500.   However, they only do rebuilds of blowers, turbos, injectors, etc and do not actually do the teardown and reinstall, etc.

When I spoke with the other shop, he is stating that they will remove and reinstall the blower, set the governors and run the racks, but they would prefer to use a blower direct from Detroit.    Has anyone had any experience is rebuilt blowers?   If a reputable shop rebuilds the blower, what would be the difference in that and one that came direct from Detroit?   The guy said that a Detroit direct blower would probably be more in the $1200 range.   

While it is in the shop, we are gonna have them check to see if a complete engine rebuild is needed.    We had called Truck Pro and found out that a rebuild kit for the engine was approx $1800.   The mechanic stated that it would be about $3000 in labor for the rebuild.   However, he again stated he would prefer to use the OEM Detroit rebuild kits, and they would be about twice the price for the kit.

Anybody have any thoughts as to why an aftermarket rebuild kit would not be as good as direct from Detroit, or why this guy is so stuck on Detroit direct parts?

Our thinking is this:   While our bus is older, it is still in fairly good shape, and services us adequately.   It is our goal to save our money over the next couple years and upgrade to a newer bus.    We feel like if we can get a good rebuild, it will last us that next 2-3 yrs, we can upgrade and be in a better financially safe mode.   Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for all your help.

[lostagain]

Take it to a shop with 2 stroke DD experienced mechanics. Give us your location, so we can recommend a place.

They will tell you if indeed you need a blower.

5 or 6 years ago when I overhauled my 4-71 DD, I took the blower to my local DD dealearship and had them rebuild it: about $1000 IIRC, with Reliabuilt parts.

As far as kits are concerned (pistons, rings, liners, bottom ends bearings, etc), some after market parts are quite good, such as FP from Federal Mogul for example. There are other good ones. Your DD mech will have an opinion on that.

It might not need a rebuilt. Maybe a good tune up will make it run better.

JC

[Busted Knuckle]

The mechanic is trying to save you $ and him grief.

DD parts are the parts that are of known QUALITY! And while yes there may be after market parts available, you get what ya pay for. You've heard it before I'm sure.

Some after market parts meet or exceed the originals quality, but MANY don't.

And if the mechanic uses "your" after market parts and they fail it'll be up to you to get them warrantied and you'll have to pay for the labor and additional parts torn up in the failure.

If the mechanic uses genuine DD parts he'll get them warrantied and do the labor over at his cost as he should stand behind his product & work.

Yes most times the shop makes "some $" off parts they sell or provide. But that is where they make up for having to "eat" labor if a part they sold fails.

SO take it for what it's worth, but YA GET WHAT YA PAY FOR!
  BK 

[RJ]

Buddy -

First - Go to your profile (via the tab above) and edit your signature line with at least your home-based city & state, so we can better help direct you to local services.  Adding the make, model and powertrain of your coach is also a good idea in helping us to provide you with coach-specific advice.  See my sig below for an example.

Second - BEFORE you spend a lot of time, money and effort, find out what oil was put in your engine the last time you had the oil changed.  If it was a multi-weight, such as 10-30w or 15-40w, that alone might be contributing to your higher oil consumption.  The only thing you should be running in that 8V71 is straight 40wt with less than 1% ash content.  Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo 100, Mobile Delvac, Citgo Low Ash Transit are some of the more common brands.  Normally won't find these at WallyWorld, best if you order them from a local petroleum distributor.  All the major oil companies have, on their commercial products websites, links to dealer locators.  Most can get you what you need overnight, as can a lot of NAPA stores.  8V71s take an average of seven gallons per oil/filter change, so you'll need at least two cases of six gallons each to get started.

Third - Power wash or steam clean the engine compartment thoroughly.  Get as much gunk off the engine as you can.  Once clean, take it for a drive - you may find that your oil consumption might be cured by fixing some leaks.

Fourth - JC's advice is dead on, as is BK's: Take it to a shop with experienced DD two-stroke technicians.  Might even ask the local charter bus company's shop foreman where they send out their 2-stroke service work, if they still have any in their fleet.  And if they don't, ask anyway!  Heck, ask him if they take outside work, can't hurt.

Good luck, and keep us posted on the outcome!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[luvrbus]

I would be incline to say Buddy has broken oil rings or bad piston pin seals I know a little history of his bus Buddy had a guy install just rings in old liners and he has used oil ever since then it takes about 25,000 miles for those to seat if they ever do.

Buddy uses good oil I gave him the Delvac number before.

He probably needs a overhaul I would go with a exchange blower not necessary a DD if he really needs one or he could have Don or Geoff send him a blower as far as liner kits DD warranties theirs for 1 year they will replace one no questions ask, the after market guys like FP warranties theirs for 2 years try and collect on that warranty lol ask Dallas or me

if you can afford it go with DD parts me personally I wouldn't walk across the street for the FP stuff made in Taiwan the FP made in Mexico and here is not that bad but most of the internet sellers sell the Taiwan made parts fwiw DD liner kits for a 8V92 are costing me almost 4 grand now from WW Williams and I pay it

good luck

[Busted Knuckle]

There ya have it the "YODA of buses" has just said it all!

Thanks for sharing your valuable experiences Clifford!
  BK 

[buddyten]

Hey Guys:
Thanks for all the responses....I have done some further checking today, and found out the following:

1)   The shop that I have been talking to that was recommended by the Mack Dealer, is supposedly one of the best 2 stroke guys around.   As we all know, those guys are getting to be few and far between.   Most all the mechanics now deal with the computer run Series 60 engines, and just don't have a lot of experience dealing with our 2 stroke puppies.    The reason this guy was recommended to us is that he does do a lot of service work for the local charter lines, etc.   I also spoke with one of the charter companies today, and he also recommends this mechanic.  Seems that this guy does a lot of bus work.

2)  I have also done some research on the diesel service that was going to do the rebuild on the blower.   Almost every diesel repair service in our area (including the mechanic mentioned in #1) uses this shop for all their rebuilds.   They do injector rebuilds/service, turbos, blowers, etc.   Supposedly they are the best around and have been in business for almost 30 yrs.

3)  While I understand that true Detroit parts might be the ultimate way to go, I just don't see spending a whole lot of money when I can use aftermarket parts.  Truck Pro is not an online or "order by mail" type outfit.   They are about the premier parts dealer in our area.   One of my friends is the manager of the local outlet here, and when I spoke with him about some of your concerns, he assured me that they only deal in reputable aftermarket parts.   They too do not want to get involved in issues about bad parts and being dragged into costly situations.   He did indicate that he could get the Detroit parts for me, but they would be much more costly than what they could furnish aftermarket.

4)  I think we have decided today that while it is down, we might as well go ahead and do a rebuild.   When we had the new rings, etc done, we did not have the blower rebuilt, and am sure it needs it anyway.    Gonna go ahead with new liners, pistons, and the whole enchilada.   Just wanted to save as much money as we can, and if we can save approx $3000 to $4000 using aftermarket parts vs Detroit parts, then it makes sense to us.    BTW, the shop says they will warranty their labor whether we use Detroit or other parts, they just feel more comfortable using Detroit parts. 

5)  As indicated in earlier posts, it is our goal to run our bus another couple of years, save our money, and upgrade to a newer ride.   We don't want to spend any more money than we have to on this one, if we can get a good rebuilt engine.   Within the last year we have had a new air compressor/dryer system installed, new fan bearings and radiator rebuild, new clutch/pressure plate, and other maintenance work done.   It is in good shape other than using oil.   I did have the engine pressure washed, and it appears there is a build up of oil around the plates underneath the exhaust mainfolds.   However, all those bolts are tight and the plates themselves appear to be tight.   I assume these to be inspection plates of some type.
 
6)  Finally, as suggested, I am updating my profile to show the equipment we have, but it is a '80 Eagle Mod 10, 8V71, 5 speed Spicer Manual Tranny.   I have always used straight 40WT, either Delo 100, Exxon HD3, and for the last yr have used Mobil Delvac exclusively.   We use this bus as a "Tour Bus" for our Gospel Quartet.   We run about 30-32 weekends out of the year, and try to stay within a 250 mile radius of home.   That means that we seldom put more than 500-600 miles per weekend, and more like an average of 400 miles.  This means that an average year for us would be about 15K miles.   So therefore, I don't see the need to spend more money than is absolutely necessary at this time.   

Again, thanks for all your help and suggestions.   Anything else you could advise us on, would be most appreciated.

[Geoff]

I am still around.

--Geoff

[Busted Knuckle]

BTW, the shop says they will warranty their labor whether we use Detroit or other parts, they just feel more comfortable using Detroit parts.

OK Buddy not trying to argue with you, but ................

When a shop says they will "warranty their labor" they mean if there is a problem with the work and it is faulty labor rather than a faulty part, they will stand behind the work they did.

But if a part fails they don't usually warranty the labor (unless the sell you the parts) as the parts manufacture only replaces or reimburses them for the actual failed part. (not labor and many times not gaskets and etc.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't know who the shop your using is, and probably don't know anything about them even if I did know who they are.
But I used to own a shop and have many experiences with other shops with getting our buses repaired and warranties are a major issue regardless of who's parts you use when it comes to towing and labor costs!

If I am wrong, more power to you, as you have found a shop that is an exception to the rule!

Just don't want you to be blindsided in the event of a failure which we ALL hope you don't have!

And yes we have and use Truck Pro in our area too!
 BK