Installing series 50 in 102A3

[hargreaves]

Hi guys, I am looking for some advise. I have a 1987 MCI 102A3 with a mechanical 6V92, 740, 300 hp.3:73 gears. I get approx. 6.35 miles per gallon. What I am looking to do is put a series 50 B400 package in. Has anyone done this, or have a series 50 in their coach. I can acquire the complete transit bus to do this. It has approx. 230,000 km on the motor trans.

The question I have , is it worth it? will I gain any fuel mileage?  All input would be greatly appreciated .    Gerry

[uncle ned]

Jack Campbell  and his son jerry both have a series 50 in their coach.  Jerry is a MCI and Jacks is a eagle.

I think they like the 50 very much. i believe both removed 8v92's .

they will most likley respond also.

Wish I had waited on a series 50 to replace my 6v92 instead of a complete rebuild and 2 new heads. They just became avaliable to late for me.
Plenty of power and no heat problems.

Hard headed ken my pop in also. he is putting a 50 in a silversides.

uncle ned

[hargreaves]

Uncle Ned , Do you happen to know what transmissions they are running?     Gerry

[uncle ned]

I don't know which one but they are different. Each coach has a different one

I think one was a world and don't know about the other one.

uncle ned

[Just Dallas]

You'll gain fuel mileage, but it will take you a long, lonnnnggg, lonnnnnnnnngggggggg time to see any benefit. An engine upgrade from MUI to MUI isn't cheap. An Engine upgrade from MUI to Electronic is even more expensive.
Are you gonna keep the bus 10-20 years to recoup the costs? a 1 mpg increase is not that impressive when it comes to costs. That's one of the reasons Bus manufacturers didn't embrace the change to 4 strokes a long time ago. the increased cost caused the buyers to stop and rethink replacing fleet units.

With the upgrade you might, (and I emphasize 'MIGHT'), see another mile per gallon.

How about you try putting an egg under your right foot, drive 55, or 65, and quit trying to keep up with the Mazda RX-7's when you pull away from the light?

If you'll learn that your 35,OOO pound albatross isn't going to work like a 20,000 pound class C, and drive it accordingly, you could see another 1.5 mpg. Real professional drivers, (not just the warm bodies behind the wheel put out by the schools), are always cognizant what is going on around them, whether it's traffic, tires, mirrors or engine/transmission.

One of the mods and I have been going around and around about this for the last three years... He thinks that if he can go from point A to point B and arrive an hour sooner, it's worth driving at top speed, even though his mileage suffers. My take on it is that if he's driving 70 and I do 60, and I can arrive at the destination within an hour of when he does, why not go slower?

It's all about what you want to achieve.

Good Luck!

DF

[bevans6]

The people I talked to (SEBN Palmetto rally last year) liked the S50 in the MCI's.  It was a good looking installation, and each was different.  They all had them turned up to 350 hp.  what they liked was the perceived performance improvement from the lower and broader torque band, the power delivery in other words, and things like vastly reduced cooling requirements, electronic engine control, the Silverleaf instrumentation, etc.  No one really said one thing or another about paying for it from fuel savings, I don't think that was the point of their conversion.  I think they did it because they could, because they liked it better, and it enhanced their enjoyment.  They had some funky engine mounts for the vibration.

Now here is my question - I looked up the B400 trans to see if it had overdrive (it does, 6 speed with two overdrives) because you wouldn't like the S50 with the 3.73 gears with no overdrive, was what I was told.  It is a neat little gearbox, spec is 29 inches long which is only 3/4" longer than my Spicer 8844 per the spec sheet.  What about putting that behind my little 8V-71 MUI?  Can it be done?  Should it be done?  http://www.globaltranny.com/trannys/b400.htm

Brian

[luvrbus]

Jerry uses a WT Allision and does good on fuel so I heard but he had to change the rear gears $$ Jack has a 740 and the little engine bump up to 370 on HP he doesn't do that great around 7mph about the same as my 8v92 ? why a series 50 they haven't been manufactured in years and balance shafts are getting hard to come by here in the west.

We removed a series 50 from a Eagle with a b400 was pretty gutless here 


good luck

[Just Dallas]

Agreed Clifford... I'd rather have a DT466 than one of those rattly 50's. LOL

Jerry uses a WT Allision and does good on fuel so I heard but he had to change the rear gears $$ Jack has a 740 and the little engine bump up to 370 on HP he doesn't do that great around 7mph about the same as my 8v92 ? why a series 50 they haven't been manufactured in years and balance shafts are getting hard to come by here in the west.

We removed a series 50 from a Eagle with a b400 was pretty gutless here 


good luck

[Ericbsc]

Jacks Eagle has a 740. His son Jerry, put a b500 6 speed electronic with the 50 in his MCI. Jack is traveling today (picking up his new to him MCI))!!! Give him a p.m. He will respond. Both are very pleased with the results. They did change to a 4:11 in the mci. I put a 60 in my eagle with a 4000 allison. If you are going to do this swap with a 6 speed double overdrive, I highly reccomend the lower gear. Otherwise the 6th gear will be worthless. If you are using a 740, go to a higher gear ie. 3:36 or above. This is my story and I'm stickin to it!!!

[hargreaves]

Clifford, I can get the package at a very reasonable price, around 2,000 . Balance shafts, we rebuild. The B400 does not have 6th gear. Do you think the B400 is a little small for the bus. Do you know what it will take to up the hp from its current 280 hp to 350 hp?

[luvrbus]

Yep money when going above 320 hp on series 50 ,David never had any problems with the b400 in his Eagle he just hated the series 50 lack of power and it was set on 370 also,he has power now with his Cat lol and tells me the fuel mileage is about the same as he said if you have a Shetland horse that eats as much as a Clydesdale go for the big horse.

2 grand is not a bad price for the combo he sold his take out for 4000


good luck

[hargreaves]

Ya Clifford, but I would have to get rid of the rest of the bus. They have a number of them coming up for disposal. 1995 New Flyer high floors, they used to be natural gas series 50's but they were nothing but problems so they converted them to diesel. got about 250,000 kms on brand new motors from Detroit Diesel. Nobody wants to buy them so they are going to crush em. so sad.

[Bill B /bus]

I'll jump in here with over two years on the S50 in  a 102A3. Started at 350hp and 1100 lbft.With a 6 speed HT-70, .76 overdrive in  6th. Bus response better than the 6V92 it replaced. Hill climbing was much better, no cooling issues and better fuel mileage - 8+MPG.  Upgraded the computer to 400hp and 1350 lbft. Power difference was impressive. Pyro temp went down about 100-150F. Boost improved to actually open the waste gate. And the fuel mileage increased to 9.2 MPG. Silverleaf data.

As to cooling, one radiator does the job. In fact if the outside temperature is less than 45-50F the thermostats will cause the temperature to cycle. Last winter heading south coolant temperature would slowly climb to 193-4F then fall to 183-5F. Then slowly cycle back to the 193-4F. Took about 10-12 minutes per cycle at 35F outside.

Its not an easy job to do the swap but the results are worth it. Clean engine bay. Clean toad. And less fuel burn. And the power is great.


Bill

[luvrbus]

That is a old transmission you have there Bill,If you decide to do it Hargreaves I can get you the drawing from Cole he was the brain who did the transplants for Greyhound at Stewart and Stevenson on the MCI's I still think the C-9 or M-11 would be a better choice

[hargreaves]

Clifford, I would love those drawings, pretty sure it is a go , can't resist at that price. Only concern is whether the trans will stand up to 36,000 lbs of bus. It has a retarder, don't know if I should go with it or get some jakes.  Thanks for all the input/info.    Gerry