Pardon my ignorance, but can I add a tube to a tire with a slow sidewall leak?

[Kevin Warnock]

It seems I should know this, but I don't.

One of my rear tires on my two axle RTS has a very slow sidewall air leak. It takes more than a week for the tire to go flat... maybe as long as a month. The tire guy said to throw it out. But the other tire on the dually doesn't have a lot of tread left. It matches the tire that's leaking. I have read I should not put a new tire on a dually with a tire that's had most of its tread used up. The reasoning is that the new tire will carry more of the load since the diameter is larger due to the new fresh tread.

What I want is to buy a used tire to go in place of the leaking tire, but I can't find one for sale in San Francisco, where I live.

That leads me to my question:

Can I have a tire shop put a tube in my tubeless tire? Presumably the tube would keep the tire from going flat and would not fail like I've been told a patch would.

I really should buy 4 new tires for the back of the RTS, but I only drive about 25 miles per year now, and I don't want the clock to start ticking on new tires while I complete my conversion. I'll get new tires when I go anywhere far, but right now I just move from one side of the street to the other once a week for street cleaning. That's how I rack up those 25 miles per year, if that.

Right now I just leave the tire flat, since I don't drive faster than about 5 miles per hour while crossing the street. But I would like to be able to drive a few hundred miles a year for the benefit of keeping the engine in good shape (and for the simple joy of it), and I can't do that with a flat tire.

Thanks,

Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com - my blog

[oldmansax]

They used to make tubes for tubeless tires when tubeless first came out. Don't know if they still do or not. A regular tube will not fit.

What you can do (or what the tire shop can do if they are willing), is locate & mark the leak. Remove the tire from the rim. Patch the INSIDE of the sidewall. Reinstall the tire & you should be good to go.

I done it a hundred times on trucks & cars.

TOM

[Kevin Warnock]

I've read it's horrible to patch the inside, but that some do it all the time. But it would seem even worse to have a worn tire paired with a new tire.

Is it dangerous to simply fill the tire with air periodically and drive it with this very slow leak? I could certainly add air twice a month until I buy new tires.

The problem is the tire is totally flat right now, and to my knowledge, there is no way to fill it without a tire truck coming out to visit me. I only have a $150 air compressor from Harbor Freight. How do you fill a totally flat tire anyway? I think the tire truck uses an air tank that can dump its entire contents in a second or two, but I've never seen it used so I don't know the technique. The tire guy did say there is no way for me to fill a totally flat tire myself.

Thanks,

Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com - my blog

[PSmith]

Jack up the rear axle until the tire is just starting to lift off the ground.  Man-handle it so that the tire is on the rim the best you can - seeing that the bead is touching the rim all the way around.  Remove the valve core (assuming there is no air in there anyway).  Take the air hose with a quick-disconnect on the end and firmly hold against the valve stem.  This will allow a greater of volume of air to enter the tire (compared to leaving the core inside).   Wiggle the tire the best you can while the air is going in.  If you're Lucky, this will cause the beads to set and the tire will start to accept air.

I've done this myself quite a few times and has worked for me.  Saving a service call...   

I did have to get a tire guy once, and it cost me 55.00 for 10 minutes work and the right tools. The Blaster is a neat tool, but try the above method - It's FREE !  If it doesn't work - use your phone.

[Utahclaimjumper]

There is allways the old "starter fluid trick",, don't try it if you don't know how.>>>Dan

[John316]

There is allways the old "starter fluid trick",, don't try it if you don't know how.>>>Dan

Yup, I have never done it myself, but I have seen some guys doing it. Looks pretty interesting. I have also known them to blow up in your face, after they are seated. Careful with that stuff.

Personally, I don't touch dismounting tires. I could very easily do it, but I simply don't want to. Not to mention taking a tire iron to the teeth is not pleasant. One slip and ouch.

John

[demodriver]

I put tubes in tubeless tires all the time, no issues.
Why wouldnt one fit?

Is the tire off of the bead? If not it will air right up, perhaps slowly, but still air up.

[gumpy]

Personally, if you're only moving it from one side of the street to the other, and are going to install new tires before you actually use the bus, I would just leave it flat! You have duals. The second wheel will carry the load for now. Drive it from one side of the street to the other side and back. When you finally get ready to use the bus, then get two new (or better yet, 4 new) tires.

You can put a tube in there, but there's a possibility the stem position won't quite match the hole position in the rim and that will lead to premature failure.  It's also difficult to get a tube in a tubeless truck tire, but not impossible, and will be somewhat expensive to have done. I don't recommend this on a worn out tire, but is an option you might look at. Probably cheaper to patch it or find a used tire to replace it with.

You can have the sidewall leak patched from the inside, if the leak is just a simple hole. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this, and it is the most effective method of fixing a leak.
However, that depends on where on the sidewall the leak is, how big the hole is, and what the nature of the hole is. There are simply some damages that cannot be patched, or would not
be advised as the damage may actually be too severe in which case the tire should be replaced.

And then there's also the possibility of putting some slime in there that might stop the leak. However, that one kind of needs the tires to be rotated (i.e. the bus needs to be driven) for it to find the leak, and the beads obviously need to be seated properly

If the beads are seated, and not broken, you can air up the tire with your little air pump. It will just take a long time. If the beads are broken, it will be nearly impossible for you to seat them with the tire still on the bus. You might try the jacking and wiggling thing. Get some soapy water and lube both sides of the the beads to help them seal against the rim. Vegetable oil can be used, too. If you can't get it to seat, try wrapping a chain and boomer around circumference of the tire, or use a come-along or ratcheting load strap around it to try to squeeze it and force the sides outward. Sometimes this will help seat them.

Do not try the starting fluid trick under any circumstances because it's pretty obvious you don't know what you're doing here, and applying that one incorrectly can get you critically killed.

[Busted Knuckle]

All of the above!

Oh and ah Craig.... I like the "critically killed" part. As opposed to what minorly killed? LOL!


OK now I would probably rig a way to air it from the buses main tank. And as long as you don't move it while flat the bead should stay intact and air right up.
One trick not mentioned is driving the inside tire up on a 2"X6"
block and raising the outside taking the weight off it. (could even park it like that on purpose so that it's already done next time you have to air it up.
  BK 

[gumpy]

One trick not mentioned is driving the inside tire up on a 2"X6"
block and raising the outside taking the weight off it. (could even park it like that on purpose so that it's already done next time you have to air it up.
  BK 

Good point. For some reason I was thinking the leaking tire was an inside dual, but he never actually said that. I guess I just assume the worst case. So, as BK says, you can drive the
inner dual up on a 4x4, which will raise the outer dual off the ground. Then you can try the above ideas to reseat the beads, or can easily remove it from the axle without the need of a jack.

[Busted Knuckle]

Good point. For some reason I was thinking the leaking tire was an inside dual, but he never actually said that. I guess I just assume the worst case. So, as BK says, you can drive the
inner dual up on a 4x4, which will raise the outer dual off the ground. Then you can try the above ideas to reseat the beads, or can easily remove it from the axle without the need of a jack.

Well Craig now that you mention it I just assumed it would be the outside as most transit drivers consider the sidewalls and curbs to be a part of the breaking system.

It may actually be the inside leaking in which case he can still drive the outside up on a block to relieve weight and make it easier to air up.

But he should not try to take the wheel off with the outside tire run up on a block. It could get him even more critically killed than the either trick! 
  BK 

[demodriver]

Becareful driving up on a block. Have someone watch the block when pulling off of it. I have had them "roll up" when pulling off and tear things up under the vehicle.  I ripped a air line off of a tri axle dump one time.

[Kevin Warnock]

It is the outside tire that's flat.

Thanks for all the tips. I really learned a lot from this thread.

Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com - my blog

[Iceni John]

Kevin,

Just don't do what I saw on a bus I was travelling on (not in, because I was on its roof) from Dumre to Besi Sahar in Nepal.   There was a patch neatly bolted on the sidewall.   Yes, bolted!   This bus, optimistically called the Machapuchare Express, was an ancient Tata that laboriously crawled along the dry(ish) riverbed of the Marsiyangdi river and along barely-passable tracks, taking five hours to go about thirty miles.   Auxiliary braking consisted not of a Jake or Telma, but a small boy who jammed rocks under the rear tires to stop us from rolling backwards as we were climbing the steeper grades.

Anything we do here seems slightly tame in comparison.

John

[volzalum]

After getting the wheel off of the ground, you can also put a strong ratchet strap wrapped around the tire to compress the tire some to hold the bead tight. I used to perform this trick on off road tires in vehicles. Much safer than the lighter fluid. You just have to let a little air out after the beads are set to be able to get the strap loose.