GAS instant hot water heater (again) :)

[Chaz]

I'm glad Will brought up the electric instantaneous water heater thread. I am "kinda" considering one of those but I think I would rather have a gas one. I just don't know which gas one.     
I have a regular 6 gallon typical gas water heater now, and it does OK but, it's "Owner" is the weak link. (blond. ) I like the idea of not wasting gas when I forget to turn it off and having hot water without having to remember to turn it on.   
I don't think my hot water needs are too great but I will check my shower to see how much it flows. (I have the little chrome shower head with the on/off button. It's almost a mister!)

I thought all I needed was the fridge to get my kitchen renovation going but, I kinda forgot about the water heater. Altho it's going to go down in a bay, I still want to know what I am doing for the heater before I start in on the kitchen. (the current gas 6 gallon one is in there)

Sooooo, any suggestions?? I think the fridge that you guys recommended will work out great, now I need some ideas on a water heater.

Thanx,
Chaz

[Utahclaimjumper]

Check out the price of one of those first Chaz.>>>Dan

[PP]

Chaz, I have only found 1 gas unit that is supposed to be a direct replacement for the standard 6 or 10 gal RV water heater. It's designed specifically for RV use, but unless you have an exterior vent like most RV's (I don't) you have to purchase the remote venting system also. The unit runs about $1000. to 1500. depending on where you source it, and another $250. for the remote vent kit. If you want to know more about it, just ask, and when I get home tonight I'll look up the literature on it.
Will

It just came to me-Precision temp RV-500. And I believe Girard manufactures one that's avail through AdventureRV for less $.

[Chaz]

Whooooaaaaa....... Dang. That be a bit o' cabbage! I was actually looking at something like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Instant-on-Demand-Tankless-Hot-water-heater-GAS-12L-/130554242669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e65a3a66d

I have not gone into depth on checking them out yet since I thought maybe I could get a good start here. I will do some more reading I guess. If they are going to be much over this price............ I gotta bail on the idea.

As far as venting, no problemo. I was figuring out a bay door. Thoughts??

[Mex-Busnut]

Hey Chaz:

I have been considering this dilema as well. I was thinking of putting my propane water heater in the now-empty former OTR A/C bay. There is a stainless steel vent above this bay, just below the window, that was the squirrel-cage-blower's air intake. (You can see it in the picture.) Maybe I can adapt that to vent the exhaust of my gas water heater.

I would probably have a problem with an electric heater. as the vast majority of RV parks down here don't provide 50-amp hookups.
 

[Scott & Heather]

FWIW, we just bought and installed a Sears/Kenmore 30 gallon electric (single 1650 watt element) shorty (stubby) unit in our water bay. Works great, and haven't run out of hot water yet...even with two long, hot showers, back-to-back. Unit was $300, and rated very highly by the reviews I read. We're on 30 amp service right now and haven't had an issue yet. 

[pabusnut]

Chaz,

I am trying out a tankless gas unit that is designed for a cabin or outdoor shower use.

It says "not designed for indoor use", but I think that is because it uses indoor air for combustion.  I am mounting it near the roof above the toilet and am using a double wall exhaust pipe.  Most of our RV use will be during the summer, I can keep the bathroom vent open, so I think I will have enough air for combustion.  If I need air for combustion, I can build a power vent later.   I didn't want to put any heater in a bay or the side of the bus, because I am not a fan of cutting holes in the structure. 

I also left space in my "utilities bay" for a 10 gallon 110V AC unit, for when I am plugged into campground electric.  If I pipe it in series with the tankless unit, I can choose either when I am plugged in at a campsite.

Until it is finished and tested I won't really know, but my three potential problems as I see them are: 1) not enough temperature rise to get good hot water, 2) hard to regulate output temperature(it has controls for flow of water in, temperature, and gas flow) , and 3) I am the only adult male who will use it--and since the hot water will be endless-the tank will run dry before it is my turn unless I go first!!!!

Steve Toomey
pabusnut

[Fred Mc]

I think
I have mentioned before that I have a Paloma gas fired unit. It is about 25 years old but somewhat resembles the unit you linked to. Mine has a gas pilot lite while the linked one has a piezo lighter which I like.
I have mine mounted on a bay wall and have a short 4 inch exhaust pipe that vents through the bay door. The vent hole is covered by a round louvered cover.

The unit works great. As long as you have gas and water you have hot water. If hooked to city water you can shower for an hour if you want.

Only one thing to watch out for which took me years to figure out. The flow of hot water is governed by the back pressure pressure in the system.. So if you have a shower head that is a water saver type it will create back pressure which MAY shut off the gas and the HOT water. Not an insurmountable problem if you realize what is going on.
I was showing mine off to a fellow bus nut many years ago. He said that he had the same unit but got rid of it because he had the same problem I had with the heater shutting off due to back pressure. He never did figure it out and simply got rid of it.

Make sure that if you install one you make it easy to drain for winterizing.

Go for it.

Fred Mc

GM PD4106

[TomC]

Chaz-as stated before, I use two 10gal water heaters-one plumbed into the next with the final one wired through the inverter for hot water while driving.  They've been in use since I started my conversion in 1994 (showering at the bus after working on it-like today) and I haven't had any maintenance issues with them.  Just drain them when I remember to.  If the element goes-Wal Mart, Kmart, Home Depot, etc carries the screw in element for about $20.00.  And with 1500 watt elements, I can heat one water heater at a time on even a 20 amp plug.  Can't do that with an electric instant water heater.  Do you think that propane instant water heater will give you over 17 years of trouble free service like my two electric water heaters has?  Good Luck, TomC

[RoyJ]

I have a $140 propane fire instant hot water heater that I bought off ebay couple years ago. Works great for me.

The thing is, if you need a little bit of hot water here and there, then it's not as convenient as a tank unit, as the water takes a little while to heat up. For showers, it works great because you have virtually unlimited hot water. But for boondocking, it's not as water efficient as a tank heater.

[Chaz]

I really like your idea, Steve!! But I'm trying to save space. But I'm going to keep it in mind.
Thanx for the info, Fred. Not sure what you have to do to rectify the problem tho, get a larger flow head? That's kind of a bummer when you're trying to save water. OH!!! Hey, what about a bypass back to the tank??? I was wanting to do that anyway for the initial cold water so I wouldn't waste it. I could leave it run just enough to hold the pressure I need, if necessary. Hmmmmmm........    
I'm with ya Tom. I'm just not wanting to use electricity. Especially for as little as I use it. If I start doing months in it, maybe then. Thanx.
Thanx Roy. I reeeeally appreciate the insight. The return run to the tank may be the hot ticket if water will be an issue at some time. That's easy with a shower but maybe overkill for the sinks. It will be really close to them. What is your brand?? And how big is it?? (8L or 12L or 20L??) I wouldn't mind buying a cheaper one if I think it will work.

Thanx again guys!!!!!!!!!
   Chaz

[Chaz]

Hey Steve! (pabusnut)
How did your "experiment" work out?? I was just curious as I need to pull the trigger on my heater, and I'm still up in the air on which one I should purchase. 
The pressure thing, that Fred talked about, also worries me a bit . Presently, my pump(s) come on and off intermittently while taking a shower. (turns my radio on and off as well which is frustrating!  ) So I am wondering if the back pressure issue would give me the warm-cold-warm-cold scenario?? That would NOT be acceptable!!!  But as mentioned earlier, if I needed to, I guess I could put a diverter valve on the shower to send some water back to the tank so I could keep the pump running. (??) Do you guys think that would rectify the problem?? And, if I bought it, even tho it could be an "issue" to return the heater if that was the only problem, I am someone who hates/does not do it unless it really is a bad deal.
Thanx again for all the help!
Chaz

[wal1809]

When I put mine in my house it called for a special vent pipe made for the unit.  The book and county code called for any wood within 12 inches of the pipe to be covered with sheet metal.  I know understand why.  Get near that vent pipe and it will urn you.  So venting this thing in a bus is going to be tricky.

[pabusnut]

Chaz,

My bus is at exactly the same point it was two months ago.  When it failed a safety inspection, I realized that I couldn't fix everything AND finish converting prior to the scheduled start of my vacation.  Soooooo... we went in the Jeep Liberty CRD on the "Great Western Tour" sans Bus and "camped" in hotels and motels—safely and comfortably.  Only saw two "real" converted bus, and lots of Entertainer coaches.
Upon our arrival back in PA, we were greeted with a Hurricane, and less than a week later a flood.  We had over 15 inches of rain in about a day, and even though my house is on a slab with no basement, we had water seep through the floor!  The roof also leaked from the hurricane damage not yet fixed.  So the bus has been at the bottom of the priority list.

My gas unit has manual knobs to regulate both the heat level and the water flow, so I think after some tinkering, I may be able to get a "Goldilocks" situation.   I did find a double wall pipe to use to go through the ceiling, which I will be insulating aound the pipe with some type of "fake asbestos" when I find it.   I will be back on the plumbing system as soon as I get the speedometer working again, and pull the throttle cable, lube and reinstall it.  I also need some brake work and a tie rod installed, but I am paying the shop to do that since they have the equipment to do it safely whereas I don't.

I will let you know as soon as I test it.

Steve
PAbusnut

[Chaz]

Thanx Steve. Sorry about all the "issues" out your way. I hope the vacation was good at least! 

I was thinking on double or even triple wall pipe as I will 90* it and take it out of a bay door. I think I will be fine as far as the heat goes. But if I fire it up and it shows signs of too much heat on something, I have plenty of metal to take care of it.

Thanx again!
  Chaz