This is What a Ruined 8V71TA Looks Like...........

[bobofthenorth]

The last farm tractor I owned with an oil bath cleaner was a 70 John Deere.  720/730 series were the same but we're talking 1958-61 for the 30 series.  I believe that the "New Generation" tractors introduced in 1961 (3010 for example) also used oil baths up until the late 60's or early 70's.

[JohnEd]

FOR CRISTS SAKE JOHN,, GIVE IT A BREAK!!>>>D

OK!

[JohnEd]

The last farm tractor I owned with an oil bath cleaner was a 70 John Deere.  720/730 series were the same but we're talking 1958-61 for the 30 series.  I believe that the "New Generation" tractors introduced in 1961 (3010 for example) also used oil baths up until the late 60's or early 70's.

Thanks Bob,

That's what I got from all the guys I spoke to ion the field.  They are around and doing the great job they always did.

John

[artvonne]

  I did some poking around on my own. Looks like Ford was still using Oil Bath air cleaners on their tractors up into the late 80's, possibly early 90's. Overseas they are still being used and are quite popular, especially is desert environments. And perhaps, for economic reasons, If your clogging up a paper element every few days an oil bath type would rapidly pay for itself.

  Everyone needs to chill, this isnt, or should not be a Chevy vs Ford argument. I think its great that DD has literature showing a paper filter out performs an oil bath. But Clifford, I have seen, with my own eyes, GM Buses from the 1980's with oilbath air cleaners. So GM was definetly speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

  But I dont live in the desert, and I dont often drive dirt roads, as Buses often did decades ago. Ive had paper filters last years as long as you stay out of dirt. Whether one type is better or not is a moot point, and certainly not worth arguing about. Either one will work fine and your engine will last just as long if you do proper maintenance.

[luvrbus]

Yep and you won't find where GM installed a turbo engine but I found 10 with turbos that went to a outfit in New York all 4905's and 1 is setting in my shop and we have the paper work to back it up GM shipped the bus with a 8v71 turbo
And spending a few years over in that eastern desert anything that has a oil bath filter is also equipped with a pre cleaner you clean 3 or 4 times a day and will be a N/A engine.
When we built the soccer in Russia they furnished us with Russian built equipment even as crude as that stuff was it all had paper filters. I'll stick with manufactures on paper being better than a oil   

good luck

[belfert]

I replaced the paper filter in my bus when I bought the bus in 2006.  That was probably 25,000 miles ago and it appears to still be going strong.  I do have a filter minder and it hasn't moved at all yet.

This is surprising to me as I drive 30 miles across a dry lake bed every year and the dust is out of this world.  It probably helps that my air intake is 10 feet off the ground.

[Iceni John]

It probably helps that my air intake is 10 feet off the ground.

Exactly.   Don't some buses have their air intakes quite low to the ground, lower than Dinas' (and mine)?   Maybe Dina allowed for their buses being used on dusty or dirt roads (which may be why they have better ground clearance than most US buses).   Crown may also have assumed the same.   I wonder if any newer buses designed for less-benign conditions still use OB air cleaners?

John

[luvrbus]

Some Eagle buses had a high mounted air intake the ones that were shipped to Egypt I know did but you see model 10's here with high mounted through the roof with a scoop air intakes,but Eagle stopped using the oil bath in the 60's

good luck

[Dreamscape]

The real early Eagle 01's had two scoops over the back to the top of the bus. Wonder how they did in the rain. This is a '60 model. That's the first one I had ever seen.

[JohnEd]

 I did some poking around on my own. Looks like Ford was still using Oil Bath air cleaners on their tractors up into the late 80's, possibly early 90's. Overseas they are still being used and are quite popular, especially is desert environments. And perhaps, for economic reasons, If your clogging up a paper element every few days an oil bath type would rapidly pay for itself.

 Everyone needs to chill, this isn't, or should not be a Chevy vs Ford argument. I think its great that DD has literature showing a paper filter out performs an oil bath. But Clifford, I have seen, with my own eyes, GM Buses from the 1980's with oil bath air cleaners. So GM was definitely speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

 But I don't live in the desert, and I don't often drive dirt roads, as Buses often did decades ago. Ive had paper filters last years as long as you stay out of dirt. Whether one type is better or not is a moot point, and certainly not worth arguing about. Either one will work fine and your engine will last just as long if you do proper maintenance.

Thank you for your validating info and concern over peace in the family, Art.  I can't take all that Clifford says as gospel.  I view this as a journey of discovery as I am learning more and more that validates what, for me, started out as a "hunch".  I still got it.

In banking we have what is called "The Acid Test".  See http://www.allbusiness.com/glossaries/acid-test-ratio/4943167-1.html  It cuts the wheat from the chaff in a bank loan application.  Then there is the  Acid Test (AT) for people having any possible streak of likability:  Did Will Rogers ever meet this man?  And now we have the AT of "validity":  Has Clifford ever heard of this?LOL  Now that ain't sarcasm , but, straight up humor.  Sarcasm is tricky and convoluted and subtle like.

Gm speaks out of both sides of its mouth often and to varying degrees.  Goes with being a large corp.  You know when a drunk is lying by watching his/her lips.....if they are moving then the drunk is lying.  If that offends any then they really should hide that fact.  We don't want to take this much further as Clifford's last com said that Dietz didn't exist.  How serious can he be?  He is just jerking the collective chain of the board.  OB will shorten the life of a D engine?....antique?.....and now we are building soccer stadiums in Russia.  Truly gifted!   I admire creativity as much, possibly more, than the next man.  My hat is off.

Don't fall for that "turbo'd 4905 gambit as it will go "nowhere" and is intended to.

Thank you sincerely for your concern...again. Paul.  In this medium I come across as harsh or angry sometimes.  Neither is valid but it is my doing entirely.

Still luv ya Clifford...specially when you stretch,

Your admiring friend(seriously)

John

[luvrbus]

Yep JohnEd and your tax dollars paid for that soccer stadium 10,000,000 big ones Flintco from Tulsa was the general and I did the earthwork If you ever get to Moscow look at the brass plaque and you will see me lol been to Moscow 5 times in one year while we were building not a place I care for myself,if you would like the address I can give to so you can Goggle like you do everything else and post me a photo of a 2 stroke Deutz and I'll stop in Eugene and buy you a steak


good luck

[JohnEd]

If you want to pay shipping and packing, I'll send you the oil bath filter from my MCI gratis...  it has four elements, weighs around 150 lbs and is a lump roughly 16" tall by 20" wide and 24" long...

Brian,

What engine did the OB filter you have come off of?  Is it a single pass or are there parallel filters?  Is a pic too much trouble to feed my curiosity?

Thank you,


John

[TedsBUSted]

Politics and philosophy aside...

In my opinion, the greatest single improvement to extended engine life has been the dry element filter system. A system with a pre-cleaner, primary element, and  secondary element, has to be ten times more effective than oil bath.

Besides the haphazard way an oil bath hopes to drop impurities out, most have a poorly sealed bowl and/or connections with a direct leak path for unfiltered air to enter the engine. Incidentally, the bowl also makes an excellent water trap, with collected water  nicely displacing oil.

The intake plumbing of even the best maintained  oil-bath equipped engine is (was) usually coated with a  "paste" of dirt that has passed beyond the filter. Whereas the plumbing of a properly maintained dry system is usually hospital clean.

Then there's oil-bath's required frequent labor intensive servicing, -remember, many industrial applications required daily service- with each servicing exposing the engine to a direct dose of dirt.

With a dry system, all connections are gasket sealed, any collected moisture is automatically drained away, and when the service meter indicates that service is actually necessary, it's usually a quick, clean and simple task.

Incidentally, over 20K was a long time to make it breathing dirty air. Most hard-working engines would be finished with just a day or two of taking on dirty unfiltered air.

Ted

[kyle4501]

Good grief - obviously a 8V71 since that is what he took out.

RE: GM doublespeak about paper being better than oil bath - yet still selling oil bath. I've worked for OEMs & have tried to educate customers, but when they insist on buying something - you sell it to them. . . . .

Oil baths work, but have a relatively narrow range of acceptable air flow. Paper elements work over a much broader range of air flow & performance does not suffer due to low air flow.

Use what ever you want, but I'm going with a paper element intake air filter.

If you want to pay shipping and packing, I'll send you the oil bath filter from my MCI gratis...  it has four elements, weighs around 150 lbs and is a lump roughly 16" tall by 20" wide and 24" long...

Brian,

What engine did the OB filter you have come off of?  Is it a single pass or are there parallel filters?  Is a pic too much trouble to feed my curiosity?

Thank you,


John

[rv_safetyman]

I replaced the paper filter in my bus when I bought the bus in 2006.  That was probably 25,000 miles ago and it appears to still be going strong.  I do have a filter minder and it hasn't moved at all yet.

This is surprising to me as I drive 30 miles across a dry lake bed every year and the dust is out of this world.  It probably helps that my air intake is 10 feet off the ground.

Brian, I am concerned about your observation.  Yes, the high intake makes a big difference, buy you drive in one of the worst areas in the world for miles and do it each year.  I simply can't believe that you air cleaner has not been exposed to huge amounts of fine dust.

If it were me, I would pull the air filter and check it (would assume you have done that).  Then I would pull the hose that connects to the turbo and inspect the interior surface to make sure that the dust is not somehow bypassing the filter.

I would also try to find a way to check your filter minder.  Even after I put a new filter in, I get some indication on my filter minder.

Jim