Purchasing Used Fire Apparatus For Parts

[HB of CJ]

New Related Topic.  Can buying used fire apparatus a auction be a great way to get good parts $CHEAP$...or can it become a nightmare best avoided?  Depends upon many factors discussed below.

Sometimes fire agencies auction off perfectly good, used fire stuff very cheap and bargins can be had.  The key is researching and knowing exactly what you are getting and not paying too much for it.

Most if not all "the good stuff" goes to bidders who are in the business of doing soos and the used apparatus ends up in some third world country to put out more fires.  Such areas can't afford to buy new.

However, for whatever reason, sometimes good deals can be had on older apparatus that had the diesel engine and tranny overhauled just before the apparatus is placed on the auction block.  It happens from time to time.

The key is knowing what you are buying and researching before hand.  An inside edge or connection with the agency in question also helps.  Lots of times the city hall bean counters sell off good stuff best kept.

Unknown why this happens.  If time allows, contact the prior owners and ask who actually drove the fire engine and what kind of shape it is in.  Most old coot fire fighters will be happy to talk to you.

Also look for all the maintenance papers which may accompany the used apparatus, if any.  Some auctions provide this, some don't.  The geographic location of the auction matters also.  SW apparatus may have less rust.

Finally, determine how much good stuff can be gleened from the fire engine.  You must get your money back on the total value of the parts then used in your Bus Conversion.  Easy to do the math and tell.

Most older auctioned off fire engines have major problems, like hidden collision damage, bad rust, non-repairable cracked frames, busted or loose fire pumps or just a general poor condition not worth fixing up.

Road mileage is also a poor indicator of used fire apparatus condition.  If possible, check the engine and tranny hours and use an oil analysis to get a better determination of the major stuff.

Strangely enough, there is no real age limit requirement on fire apparatus.  Some agencies auction off good stuff way before its time, which may create real $bargins$ for Bus Convertors.

Some auctions let you check out and drive the stuff, some auctions don't.  Be aware, be careful, know what you are getting for just pennies and good stuff can be had cheap.  HB of CJ (old coot retired fire service)

[pipopak]

Just remember that fire engines are typically started cold and driven like NASCAR cars right on. This can't be good for engines or transmissions. Like a very desirable muscle car driven only 5,000 miles..... 1/4 at the time!.

[Len Silva]

Just remember that fire engines are typically started cold and driven like NASCAR cars right on. This can't be good for engines or transmissions. Like a very desirable muscle car driven only 5,000 miles..... 1/4 at the time!.

Not necessarily true.  I know that at least in some stations, engine heaters are in use anytime the rig is in the house.

[TedsBUSted]

But... other than possibly an engine/trans and maybe some tires, I don't see a fire truck as having many other parts to donate to a conversion project. Granted the power plant  would be enough, if it's what you need.

[luvrbus]

Fire trucks from major cities are good donors I have seen it in Houston at Stewart and Stevenson they don't rebuild the 60 series or the 2 strokes they install a brand new crate engine.  
It came with everything except a power steering pump in by 8 out of the shop at 5
They installed a new engine (8v92) in one for Bryan/Collage Station and I saw it come up for sale 3 weeks later I am not afraid of fire truck engines just know what you are buying simple huh.
They have a 1st class heating,AC and air purification in those that would work nice in a conversion 

good luck

[belfert]

I think part of the reason fire engines get major repairs like new engines and trannies and then quickly replaced is that smaller departments don't always know in advance when they might be getting new equipment.  State or federal money can become available and so equipment gets replaced.  A small department would be silly not to take new equipment when it is offered.

[pipopak]

Just remember that fire engines are typically started cold and driven like NASCAR cars right on. This can't be good for engines or transmissions. Like a very desirable muscle car driven only 5,000 miles..... 1/4 at the time!.

Not necessarily true.  I know that at least in some stations, engine heaters are in use anytime the rig is in the house.

Engine heathers are used to prevent freezing liquids and keep oil viscosity within check. Metals in a working engine expand. The only way to keep an engine at working temp is by running it idle.

[Seayfam]

I would buy a used fire truck for the engine in a heartbeat. I was a mechanic for the city I live in and worked on the emergency response equipment. Those fire trucks in my department never seen a cold start. They have many heaters on them and are always parked indoors and plugged into air and engine heaters. When you go to start one it is full of air and the engine is up to temp. They do get run hard right from the start though. We had one engine that was 20 years old and had 35,000 miles on it and if I remember right about 3,000 hours on the meter. We ended up driving that one down to California to have all the pumps and everything on the truck rebuilt including new paint. We had them dyno the engine and check it all out, they said it was as good as new. So that was the only thing on the truck that wasn't replaced. I can say, the trucks at our department got serviced all the time and were very well taken care of. When I changed the oil, it was usually still clean.

[Len Silva]

Just remember that fire engines are typically started cold and driven like NASCAR cars right on. This can't be good for engines or transmissions. Like a very desirable muscle car driven only 5,000 miles..... 1/4 at the time!.

Not necessarily true.  I know that at least in some stations, engine heaters are in use anytime the rig is in the house.

Engine heathers are used to prevent freezing liquids and keep oil viscosity within check. Metals in a working engine expand. The only way to keep an engine at working temp is by running it idle.

We are not talking about the simple block heaters we use on our buses.

Now, I don't have much first hand knowledge about fire apparatus, but I do know a bit about diesel standby generators.  They are kept HOT, all the time.  Not just block heaters, but circulation pumps, oil heaters and fuel heaters.  They also go from stop to full load in a matter of seconds.