Direct replacement for R-12?

[robertglines1]

checked search: remembered awhile back that someone said you could add something to a existing r-12 system that had lost some ref.  Our toter home has a r12 system that is cycling. Hate to change over if there is something we can just add. Prob only needs a pound.     This is the unit we pull our steam engines with about 4 times a year to shows.  Freight Linner    Bob

[demodriver]

message sent 

[rv_safetyman]

Bob, I know you are a do-it-yourself kind of guy, but you could have an AC shop top it off with the real stuff and have them check for leaks at the same time.  Might just be a loose fitting.

Others will join in with possible replacements - has been discussed many times.

I was reading my AC magazine (not sure why I am on the mailing list) today.  They were talking about the fact that R134 is falling out of favor with the OEMs as it is a depleting material as well.  The new material is R1234yf.  It will be used by some OEMs later this year.  So far the cost is not well fixed yet, but they are talking about $1500 per 30 pound container!!!  It is an HFO material and just got snap approval.

In the same magazine they talked about the cooling system (not AC) on the GM Volt.  In reality there are four cooling systems.  The most critical is the battery cooling system.  If the radiator can't cool the batteries sufficiently, the system has a heat exchanger in the car AC system.  Hugely complex and very costly to service.  BTW, the AC compressor is electrically driven.  It boggles my simple mind how they manage to make all this work.  Sure not my cup of tea.

Jim

[buswarrior]

Lots of brand names out there, go shopping at your parts store or truck stop.

Comes in cans with a hose to put it in. Make sure you get the R-12 hose, not the R-134 hose.

Lots of butane/propane in the mix, which concerns some folks, and not others.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Utahclaimjumper]

If you were in Mexico they would use propane.>>>Dan

[robertglines1]

I'm sure it is from lack of use. This is the small unit for the cab and it hasn't been run since last fall. It short cycles now. Will ck at truck stop. Thanks for replies guys. I knew I remembered a recent discussion to this situation. Could depend on Living quarters air but would be nice to have both.

[robertglines1]

got pm : Freeze 12 :on internet 19.95 delivered -12oz direct replacement. Will prob fix problem. This is low capacity system Like car system or separate drivers air system on my bus(small compressor system).

[Busted Knuckle]

Bob O'Reilly's, Advance, AutoZone, NAPA or any other local parts house (and maybe even Wal-mart) will have Freeze 12 ! And yes it is direct replacement and works great! (I used to have NAPA deliver it to me in UC before we moved!)
  BK 

[Sean]

Just FYI, Freeze-12 is mostly R-134a (aka 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane).  It contains a tiny amount of another halogenated fluorocarbon, 1-Chloro-1,1-difluoroethane, which changes slightly the boiling point.  However, this latter component is highly inflammable, necessitating additional precautions in transporting and using the material.

For my money, I would just use straight R-134a if you are only adding a small amount compared to total system volume.  Cheaper and probably equally effective.  If you need an oil charge, just make sure you get the correct polyol ester oil compatible with the older systems.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

[gus]

I agree with Sean, I've added small quantities (some not so small!) of R134 to older R12 systems with no problems.

It is a major pain to completely drain, flush all the oil, add new correct oil and refill the system. Impossible without a good vacumn pump.

My theory is if the different oils cause a failure somewhere then I will do the full thing. There is also an oil compatible with both freons.

Since I am a skeptic I think that R1234yf is just another step, probably by DuPont,  to raise the price of freon. Remember when a 16 oz can of R12 was $0.98? The whole thing is an expensive farce.

[Tikvah]

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[Sean]

Please, spare us the conspiracy theories.  Or, at least, take it to Off-Topic, where such arguments belong.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

[chev49]

well there are a few orifaccccce type dealies that r specific to the type of refrigerant.. and so  on... it aint rocket science, you can easily assemble your own system if you know what ur doing... and i'm keeping all my stock of r12 for myself...     btw.. u can sometimes accidently pick it up at the car swap meets...

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Bobby,

R-409A is a direct replacement for R-12. The closest characteristics with only slightly higher psi's.

Only Refrigeration guy's like me use/stock it. You would be supprized at how many R-12 systems we still service..

Mostly medium temp walk in coolers, 15 years+ deli cases, and ice merchandisers that only need to hold zero degrees.

Call your local reefer guy and ask! We usually help all..

Nick-

[chev49]

the 409 blend of r22,etc is around $400 or so for a 30lb can ... me thinks..  some day soon your car refrigerant will be worth more than the whole thing...tnx to our gummunt epa (as in the simpsons movie)