House battery options

[Cary and Don]

We have always used golf cart batteries for our house batteries. The new bus is using a pair of 8-ds.  Is there any advantage of one type over the other?  We want a large bank like we have been using, 10 golf cart batteries.  We use our batteries a lot.

Don and Cary
1973 Eagle 05
GMC 4107
Neoplan AN340

[TomC]

I am using 2-8D Lifeline AGM batteries. In my truck I'm going to switch to the L16 6vdc battery.  They are the same size as a golf cart battery but almost 16" high.  They put out 400amp/hours-so for me, 4 of them will be 800amp/hours at 12vdc.  I like AGM's-they're sealed-so no water checking, they don't out gas so you don't have to worry about venting (they can be mounted in doors) or corroding terminals, can be mounted in any position except upside down (have seen 8D's on their sides on shelves above the engines in one sport fishing yacht).  They aren't cheap-but once you have them, you'll never go back to a conventional battery. Good Luck, TomC

[artvonne]

8D battery. 140 pounds 225 AH @ 12 volts  T-105 62 pounds 225 AH @ 6volts.

  In a perfect world the 8D will cycle less, and theoretically last longer, but I havnt seen that perfect world yet. You could use less of them, making the number of connections less, reducing connection issues/maintenence. But then there is that little weight problem, can you pick up a 140 pound battery? I can today, but my back dont like it, and not so sure about tomorrow. One thing is that Trojans are a well made battery with a good reputation, and are readily available, and thats what im planning to build around.

  I bought two T-105's for the Bounder when we bought it, and they never gave any hint of trouble until this spring, one was no longer taking/holding charge. Then I realised I bought them in 2005 and havnt taken exactly premium care of them, I certainly got my monies worth out of them.

[TomC]

The 8D Lifelines are 20.76" x 10.28" x 8.6"h and weigh a hefty 162lbs with 255amp/hrs. The 6v L16'S ARE 11.64" x 6.95" x 15.73"h and weigh a more manageable 119lbs with 400amp/hrs apiece.  They also make the C16 which is a bit over 12"h and weighs 90lbs with 300am/hrs.  Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

C&D are the 2-8D for starting also or do you still have the 2 in the compartments behind the drivers on each side for starting,golf cart flooded batteries give you more bang for the bucks spent.
AGM batteries cost 2 to 3 times + for for the same amps and here in AZ they don't hold up as good as the flooded batteries


good luck

[Cary and Don]

Our starting batteries are in the rear next to the generator, first door forward of the engine compartment.  We can use these two 8-Ds that are being used for the house batteries for something else.  They are behind the front bumper now.  Not very convenient. We are planning on putting all the batteries under the driver and copilot seating area.

Can the 8ds be discharged as far as the golf cart batteries? 

Don and Cary
1973 Eagle 05
GMC 4107
Neoplan AN340

[luvrbus]

Check out  www.windsun.com they have charts on different type batteries I was shocked at the one AGM will last 7 years and the golf cart batteries will do the same

[Cary and Don]

The last time we cleaned up the 10 golf cart batteries,  we changed the way they were hooked up.   This time we hooked each pair to a bar.  Then we hooked the inverter and all other hook ups to that.  They have performed a lot better.  There is a lot less of that post corrosion, take water more evenly, and they seem to charge up faster. We figured with this set up, each pair can be checked and if one battery went bad,  we could just disconnect the pair from the bar and we would still be up and running until we could change it out.  We are going to do this set up again.  We have eight years on these and they are still checking out strong.  Guess we have been lucky.

Don and Cary
1973 Eagle 05
GMC 4107
Neoplan AN340

[artvonne]

AGM batteries cost 2 to 3 times + for for the same amps and here in AZ they don't hold up as good as the flooded batteries

good luck

  Golf cars are some of the oldest and most widely used electric vehicles. The fact that every golf car manufacturer uses flooded T-105's says something. If AGM batteries saved any money thats what you would see in them.

[luvrbus]

I was reading one of Sean's post seems like if you use the AGM a bunch like he does they don't last I remember he replaced his a couple of years back and his post said he was in the market for new ones now

[belfert]

Golf cart manufacturers don't use AGM batteries because nobody would buy their golf cart if they did.  Customers would go with the other guy who charges $500 less because they use flooded batteries.  Customers don't understand the benefits of AGM batteries.

I suspect Sean wouldn't get any better life from flooded batteries.  He uses the heck out of his batteries.

[artvonne]

Golf cart manufacturers don't use AGM batteries because nobody would buy their golf cart if they did.  Customers would go with the other guy who charges $500 less because they use flooded batteries.  Customers don't understand the benefits of AGM batteries.

  I disagree. Most golf courses make enough money they can well afford golf cars, and truly, courses and course owners are the golf car companies biggest customers. If they thought they could save a buck somewhere they would be on it, business owners generally understand good investments. But AGM is not proving itself to be any better than any other battery, except in those special situations where you truly need a sealed battery, like scooters for the elderly/disabled that are inside your home, back of your car, or to take aboard aircraft. In the 6 years ive had the T-105's in the Bounder, the tops never showed any wetness around the caps until the last year, and its minimal. I see no need to use a battery that costs 2 or three times more in this situation.

 

[belfert]

All I know is I had all kinds of problems with my golf cart batteries.  They made it about two years.  I think a big part of it was the way I hooked them up.  They should have been hooked up with bus bars and equal length cables.  I ended finding some cheap AGM batteries to replace the golf cart batteries.  The AGM batteries came out of some demonstration project.  The batteries seem to be just fine and hold a charge well.  I installed bus bars and got new cables at the same time.

AGM isn't for everyone.  It s just one option. 

[Sean]

I've addressed this topic in detail twice before.  Please see:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=4329.msg39499#msg39499
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=3291.msg29687#msg29687

(I have also addressed it in the magazine.)

Regarding some recent comments:

Golf cars are some of the oldest and most widely used electric vehicles. The fact that every golf car manufacturer uses flooded T-105's says something. If AGM batteries saved any money thats what you would see in them.

What makes the most sense for a golf course is not necessarily what makes the most sense for an RV owner, and vice versa.  This is flawed logic, yet I see it all the time.  It would be like saying that, because Boeing makes jets out of aluminum, then it follows that Chevy should make cars that way.  Or because gas turbines have a higher power-to-weight ratio, they are the best choice to power a motor coach.  It ignores the fact that there are many, many more factors that impact the choice; in engineering terms, it is a multi-variable optimization problem.

I was reading one of Sean's post seems like if you use the AGM a bunch like he does they don't last I remember he replaced his a couple of years back and his post said he was in the market for new ones now

My first set, which were "seconds" and already had several years of shelf time on them when I got them, lasted three years.  My second set, which I am still on, lasted four.  More importantly, they have close to 1,000 deep-discharge cycles on them.

Golf cart manufacturers don't use AGM batteries because nobody would buy their golf cart if they did.  Customers would go with the other guy who charges $500 less because they use flooded batteries.  Customers don't understand the benefits of AGM batteries.

This is partially correct, certainly as it applies to individual end-users.  With respect to golf courses, who have plenty of minimum-wage help to maintain their golf cars, the economics are different.  For them, flooded batteries are a more economical choice.

I suspect Sean wouldn't get any better life from flooded batteries.  He uses the heck out of his batteries.

Yes, and see my comment above about cycles.  In order to get the same cycle life and capacity out of flooded batteries I would need more of them.  That said, if you have enough to keep the DoD below 50%, and you keep them watered and cleaned weekly, you can get extremely long life out of a good set of flooded batteries.  (I note that few RV owners will maintain their batteries this way.)  In my case it is moot; the batteries are located in a place where flooded batteries can not be used.

... Most golf courses make enough money they can well afford golf cars, and truly, courses and course owners are the golf car companies biggest customers. If they thought they could save a buck somewhere they would be on it, business owners generally understand good investments. ...

You are right about this but I will say it again, these are very different applications with very different economic considerations.

But AGM is not proving itself to be any better than any other battery, except in those special situations where you truly need a sealed battery, like scooters for the elderly/disabled that are inside your home, back of your car, or to take aboard aircraft.

Sorry, but this statement is just plain wrong.  There are many applications where AGM batteries outperform flooded cells.  Note, for example, that the entire telecommunications industry shifted from flooded to AGM a decade ago, and this shift was entirely based on lifetime cost of ownership and operation.  I go into some of this in the two posts I linked above.

In the 6 years ive had the T-105's in the Bounder, the tops never showed any wetness around the caps until the last year, and its minimal. I see no need to use a battery that costs 2 or three times more in this situation.

Claiming lifetime in years is nearly meaningless unless you also state the number of cycles and DoD.  Again, I can show you the economics on AGM batteries in RV applications that, for many owners, will clearly have a lower lifetime cost than flooded cells -- even when those cells are properly maintained.  That said, for some owners, flooded is the lower-cost choice; for example, if you will sell the rig before the first battery change.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

[luvrbus]

I have no luck with AGM batteries in AZ I have had 3 sets of LifeLine batteries what I dislike most besides having them vent on me was they are slow to powerup you know lazy lol and I am not the only one that complains about that.
I see RV's all the time at my friends RV shop and all complain about that.
My friend at N AZ Sun and wind sells a lot of the AGM batteries but his favorite batteries for long life is the flooded cell Surrette 10 year warranty and cost a small fortune unless like Sean I think a 4000 dollar battery bank is not needed IMO

good luck