Waste Motor Oil for fuel.

[belfert]

By the time you spend all the money on testing, filtering, gasoline, tanks, and all the rest are you really saving any money unless you burns hundreds or thousands of gallons a month?  If you have to buy chemicals or something to lower PH and remove sulphur your savings are even less.

How long is WMO going to be readily available?  More and more people are going to be looking for alternative fuels as fuel prices go up.  Will we end up with businesses contracting to pay for WMO just like WVO?

It seems like a lot of people are this to stick it to the oil companies more than to actually save money.

[HighTechRedneck]

Good point Clifford, I forgot the older standards were in the engine manual:

FUEL SULFUR CONTENT
The sulfur content of the fuel should be as low as
possible to avoid premature wear and excessive deposit
formation. Fuel containing no more than 0.5% sulfur are
recommended. If the use of fuels with sulfur contents above
0.5% are unavoidable, lube oil drain intervals and lubricant
selection need to be changed. Detroit Diesel recommends
that the Total Base Number (TBN D 2896) of the lubricant
be monitored and the oil drain interval be reduced.

Fuel additives specifically NOT recommended
include:

Used Lubricating Oil
Gasoline

Detroit Diesel does NOT recommend the use of
drained lubricating oil or gasoline in diesel fuel. Furthermore
Detroit Diesel Corporation will not be responsible for any
detrimental effects which it determines resulted form this
practice.

The full specs and other information is there too.

[luvrbus]

Yea Mike I go through this with other WVO users they have no idea what the base number is using WVO they just keep on using the less than 1 % ash oil where they may need 1.24 or more ash content oil

good luck

[happycamperbrat]

By the time you spend all the money on testing, filtering, gasoline, tanks, and all the rest are you really saving any money unless you burns hundreds or thousands of gallons a month?  If you have to buy chemicals or something to lower PH and remove sulphur your savings are even less.

I cant speak for the others, but Im interested in processing a few hundred gallons a year for just a couple long trips and around town stuff. It takes lots of fuel to move my puppy! Of course all the math has to work out, but at the price of fuel today it gives a lot of room for error I would think.

How long is WMO going to be readily available?  More and more people are going to be looking for alternative fuels as fuel prices go up.  Will we end up with businesses contracting to pay for WMO just like WVO?

THERE is the biggest problem I see. If the country follows what Cally does like usual, then kiss it good-bye. Cally has very strict laws on wmo and wvo

[Oonrahnjay]

Yea Mike I go through this with other WVO users they have no idea what the base number is using WVO they just keep on using the less than 1 % ash oil where they may need 1.24 or more ash content oil   
good luck

Personally, I love that people are finding good, low-cost ways to fuel a bus.  But I'm concerned about WMO and this is just the tip of the iceberg.  Most of the byproducts of combustion in an engine are acidic (or tend to form acids, like NOx interacting with water vapor to form nitrous/nitric acid; CO and CO2 combining with water to form carbonic acid; and if sulfur is there, sulfur oxides combining with water to form sulfurous/sulfuric acids) but most of the additives in modern oils are metallic and basic.  And high school chemistry teaches us that if you combine acids and bases, you generally get salts and I would want to be really sure that these salts are not going to cause deposits in/on my injectors, valves, pistons/rings etc.

If you're burning WMO, you're putting a witches brew of complex chemicals in your engine -- chemicals that are mixed with the oil.  And these chemicals that you're injecting with the fuel are mixed with other chemicals that are the result of the current combustion.  Clifford is exactly right to be concerned about the effects of "blowby" getting into the oil that's lubricating your engine now.  Too much of this can wreck the bottom end of your engine; too much ash or deposit on your injectors can wreck the top end.   

I *really* hope that it works out that WMO, WVO, biodiesel etc. are safe fuels in reality (and I think that it's likely that our "elderly" engines with low injection pressures and "low tech" engine management may tolerate it better than modern, precision equipment).  But my engine won't be the test unit.

[wal1809]

Yea Mike I go through this with other WVO users they have no idea what the base number is using WVO they just keep on using the less than 1 % ash oil where they may need 1.24 or more ash content oil

good luck

Good morning Clifford,  What will the higher ash (1.24) do for the engine?

[wal1809]

I guess mine will be the test unit then.  I am going to run WVO until the wheels fall off or a piston shoots through the roof.  If there is information I can get before success or failure then I will certainly pay attention too and use it.  I didn't buy the bus to have it sit in the barn.  I didn't buy 8 different deisel vehicles to have anyone of them sit around to look at.  I became committed a long time ago and went full throttle into the alternative fuel lifestyle.  By committed I mean burn it down or build it again, no matter what I aim to be free of the pump as much as humanly possible.  Have there been some bumps int he road, "Yes".  Have I destroyed anything "No".  I don't have an exact figure but by now we should be between 250,000 and 300,000 miles on bio diesel and now WVO.

In spite of what Belfert believes I have saved a whole pile of money.  I don't have an exact figure but enough to have a shop rebuild my 6v92 every year for the next 10 years.  If it goes, then I will deal with that the same way I deal with everything in life.  I put my head down and bust my way through it. Mind you I certainly don't want to do that but if I have to I will.

So far as sticking it to the oil companies-That is not it.  I don't want anymore middle east oil here.  I come from a 100 year background in the Texas oil industry.  The main reason I recieved a diesel mechanics degree was so I could go into the oil business. The 1980s oil bust is what redirected me to something else.  The end of what we have known is very very near.  When we hit $8.00 who will still be driving a bus?

[luvrbus]

Wayne I have no idea about the WVO but on a 2 stroke you need the TBN to be right for long life and it has always been achieved by adjusting the ash in the oil.
On my equipment years back using the off road fuel which was a heavier fuel then we had to use 1.24 ash content oil to make the Total Base Number (TBN) work it's in your DD bible it's always been there the oil and fuel are tied together.
So is WVO heavier than diesel ? I don't know myself but I do admire you guys for getting out of the box just do a lot of checking you may need to change the oil every 3000 miles to keep it balanced lol I don't know how WVO burns in the 2 strokes

[belfert]

In spite of what Belfert believes I have saved a whole pile of money.  I don't have an exact figure but enough to have a shop rebuild my 6v92 every year for the next 10 years.  If it goes, then I will deal with that the same way I deal with everything in life.  I put my head down and bust my way through it. Mind you I certainly don't want to do that but if I have to I will.

You're using WVO, not WMO.  WVO doesn't seem to be quite as bad.  For some people who use a lot of fuel alternatives make sense.  You have 8 diesel vehicles.  your case would make sense to use alternative fuels.

I own two vehicles.  One that takes gas and one that takes diesel.  I don't burn enough fuel to make WMO worthwhile for me.  I also have an expensive electronic diesel engine that wouldn't tolerate alternatives well.

[wal1809]

Sorry Belfert I meant to hit the 6 not the 8.  I have 6 diesels.  In your case I can see not doing the alt thing.  We both live 40 miles one way from work.  That is 160 miles a day minimum.  Then add trips and what nots it adds up.  A step son in Kentucky, step daughter in Missouri, family in Odessa and California  (north).  We drive and we drive a lot.  I put a pen to it as we drove to Yellowstone.  On the very high end and paying for fuel it would cost us at most $100 a day more in the bus than the Jetta. 

Clifford I will draw a sample and send it to the lab at the end of this oil cycle.  I want to know what is getting past the rings and into the sump.  The last thing I want is for the WVO to get int here, get polymerization and destroy what I have going.  To be continued.....

[Paso One]

Okay I'll chime in again!

Since I already stated I do not use my WMO in the bus engine or any other engine my comments are solely based on using the WMO for burning in the shop furnace.

One of the observations is in the burning chamber when burning WMO the chamber is remarkably clean, now that tells me it is burning cleaner than # 2 HHO.

I also frequent (in the winter) a technical web site for the best in the industry oil burner technicians.

They would be appalled at what I do ( burn WMO ) in an oil burner.

However as most tech sites these guys know their stuff and they always l ask "whats the combustion chamber look like)  They usually ask this question when someone is having incomplete combustion, rough running conditions etc  ( sound familiar )  hmmmm  same fuel differant use.   makes me wonder

Some amazing things happen when experimentation happens  ( some things work

[JohnEd]

Paso,

If you are getting away with using WMO in a stock HHO boiler you are one lucky guy indeed.  There are groups dedicated to the modification of those flame thrower heads so that rthey can successfully burn WMO.  Then again, they sell those heads and the entire furnace/boiler geared for WMO.  I think some of those newer WMO burners will also take HHO.

What brand and model boiler are you using?

Thank you,


John

[Paso One]

I have an two Boilers feeding a primary circuit.

One boiler is a 250,000 BTU  converted OWB that will eventually have 3 burner guns thru the side.

The one boiler is a 140,000 Benjamin which left the factory as a oil fired boiler

The idea is to have the ability to direct  whatever " Fuel " ( WMO ) I want to the oil gun and heat the water.

I am aware of the other groups in the Yahoo groups that are experimenting,  on the wasteoilburners group there is a fellow that is doing so awesome work building a pipe burner based on the Babington ball principle.

Perhaps we should continue some of these discussions on that group or  some of the bus guys will be falling asleep:)

[bigjohnkub]

Keep Going on this board. Interesting topic for Bus guys.

Big John

[luvrbus]

Good reading between naps keep it here 


good luck