Tradeoffs: 35ft vs 40ft, Manual vs Automatic

[luvrbus]

Times have changed back when the 4104 was made the speed limit was 55 and 60 you are not going to run 75 mph all day long in one of these older buses without heating problems

good luck

[uncle ned]

Cliford   


Times have changed and so have the 4104's.  Never say never till you check on the coach.

Can run 70/75 all day long.

Just have to feed it.

uncle ned

4104's forever

[luvrbus]

Ned does that 6v92 get hot in your 4104 I have friends that have the DDEC L 6-71 330 hp in 4104's and they get little warm also at 75 mph for long periods any bus will get warm where I live in Aug lol I watch the newer Prevost and other makes going to Vegas up the grade from Laughlin they take there time about 10 mph and you always see the older buses off on the shoulder cooling down


good luck

[TedsBUSted]

Speaking of cooling... Whatever happened to the super-coolant breakthrough being touTed a few years ago? Seems like the claim was that 350hp engines were going to be cooled with heater-core sized radiators. The trucking trade magazine articles made it sound like the potion was practically retail ready.

Or was that something just for the Siberian market?  

Ted

[TomC]

You can put the 10spd Autoshift with a mechanically controlled engine, then it becomes an AutoSelect transmission.  It still shifts automatically-but you have to be the one releasing the gas pedal and then pushing it back down again at every shift.  It takes some training to get to the point of having smooth shifts, but then again, at least it is shifting for you.  The only thing you are not doing with an AutoSelect is actually moving the gear shift lever.  Good Luck, TomC

[technomadia]

A highway coach has much less ground clearance than a conversion done on a skoolie chassis.  So off-roading and backwoods boonie-bouncing will be something you might have to re-think. ... Might also consider a conversion done on an RTS chassis.  Altho based on a transit, most folk who have converted them have done all the necessary work to have basement storage and tankage. 

In my searching around, I've found essentially no Skoolie or RTS conversions for sale in a ready to go state - just half-done project buses.  If I could find some options to check out, we'd love to consider them.

Where is the best place to find Skoolies for sale?  RTS buses?

Thanks!

   - Chris // www.technomadia.com

[Lin]

There are several schoolie sites you could probably find with a little research.  There are RTS groups too.  If I were looking for a schoolie, I would keep doing searches for Crown.  They had an awesome product.  I believe that many are still in school service even though they have not been made in a long time.  They even made some with multi-wheel drive.  Things come and go, but Ebay and Craigslist will show some eventually.

[artvonne]

  And you thought asking about a Bus would be a simple question? LOL.

[technomadia]

There is a disadvantage of a low bay bus that needs to be mentioned. The low bay height makes storing bikes or scooters a challenge. You might have to get the types that fold up for storage unless you have a way to transport them on the outside. Being on the outside has its own problems like theft, dirty, in the way, etc. Every thing is a trade off. Finding a small inexpensive car or trailer to pull would be an easy fix.

This is a very good point.  Is there any information compiled anywhere comparing the bay height of various bus models?

Storing bikes outside is never a good idea.  Our first set of bikes got stollen off the rack on the back of our Jeep.  And our second set aged prematurely to the constant weathering.  *ugh*

   - Chris // www.technomadia.com

[RJ]

This is a very good point.  Is there any information compiled anywhere comparing the bay height of various bus models?

Chris -

The GMC Buffalo (4107, 4108, 4903 & 4905) has/had the largest baggage bins of any production highway model coach, including several of today's 45-foot monsters. 

(The 4905s also have a wheelbase that is longer than many of today's 45-footers, too!  Makes for a SWEET ride on the highway, even if they take a city block to turn [J/K].)

The 41s are 35-footers with two bins, the 49s are 40' and have three.  Somewhere in my file cabinet I have the dimensions of the bins, will have to poke around to find it.

Check out www.coachinfo.com for a lot of data about various bus models.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[uncle ned]

Ned does that 6v92 get hot in your 4104 I have friends that have the DDEC L 6-71 330 hp in 4104's and they get little warm also at 75 mph for long periods any bus will get warm where I live in Aug lol I watch the newer Prevost and other makes going to Vegas up the grade from Laughlin they take there time about 10 mph and you always see the older buses off on the shoulder cooling down


good luck


Clifford   The best cure that I have found is monster radiators and keep the rpm's above 1500.

no luging, either run 75 or 55

uncle ned

[Runcutter]

Russ is not kidding about turning a 4905.  Back when I was instructing, we taught that you could take a right-turn corner in a 35 foot (96 inch wide) transit, so that the right rear wheel is six inches from the curb.  Take it the same way in a 40-foot transit, you'd hit the curb.  Make the bus 102 inches wide, the 35 footer would hit the curb, the 40 footer would runover the curb.

However, take it the same way in a 4903 or 4905, your right rear wheel would go over the sidewalk, kill the pedestrians, and hit the building.  Our coach line run was into downtown Boston.  The concept is to go by the corner, halfway down the next block, then start to think about turning the steering wheel.

I may have missed earlier responses, but the big question is where you will take the bus.  If it's always paved road, a transit or coach will do.  If, however, you plan to go off the beaten path, you really do want to think about a former schoolbus (Crown being the best of them), for the high clearance.

Arthur

[Iceni John]

There are several schoolie sites you could probably find with a little research.  There are RTS groups too.  If I were looking for a schoolie, I would keep doing searches for Crown.  They had an awesome product.  I believe that many are still in school service even though they have not been made in a long time.  They even made some with multi-wheel drive.  Things come and go, but Ebay and Craigslist will show some eventually.

Yes, Crowns are certainly very well-designed and solidly-built buses, but so are Gilligs.   Both Crown and Gillig made tandems  -  they have both rear axles driven, unlike OTR buses with tag axles, with an inter-axle third differential that can be locked for off-road or snow/icy conditions.   These tandems were only made as mid-engine 40-footers, with either Detroit 6-71 or big Cummins, with Allison HT740 automatics or with 5- or 10-speed manuals.   Gearing varies  -  my friend's tandem Gillig has 3.7 axles, which with a 290 HP 14-liter Cummins 855 means that hills really don't slow him much, and he can cruise all day long at 75 MPH.   His tandem Crown has (we're guessing) 4.1 axles, so it's good for about 70 MPH because its 6-71 is set for more than 2100 RPM;  it has a Road Ranger non-overdrive 10-speed which gives it an absurdly low first gear  -  you could easily start that bus up the steepest of grades.   He gets about 10 MPG with both his buses, not bad for heavy-duty vehicles with GVWRs over 47,000 lbs!

The one downside of these tandems if you want a fully-converted bus is their mid-engine design.   There's not much room underneath for water tanks and everything else that's needed, but they do have large rear trunks that can hold a lot.   For this reason my friend's Gillig will have its bathroom and shower in the back, directly above the grey and poo tanks in the trunk.   There are several really nice conversions of mid-engine Crowns and Gilligs, so it can be done;  it just needs much more ingenuity and out-the-box thinking than even a "normal" bus conversion.

Another factor with Crowns and Gilligs  -  they have hefty full-length frame rails (except by the trunk area on mid-engine buses), making it easy to attach tow hitches and anything else.   This is one reason that they can handle rough or unsurfaced roads so well  -  some Crowns used by school districts in the desert have run almost a million miles on such roads, for decades!

My Crown is one of the rare later pushers, with the same 6V92 engine and HT740 transmission as an MC9 bus.   I chose it over a mid-engine simply because there's so much more underfloor space for everything I need:  I have two 110-gal fresh tanks, a 115-gal grey and a 65-gal poo tank, room for eight golfcart batteries, a small generator for emergency use, and there's still space for lots more things without using any of the full-width bellybin.   It's a 40-foot single-rear-axle, also an usual configuration, but it has four less tires and two less differentials than a tandem, which should lower its long-term costs of upkeep.

If you want something really unusual, Sierra Sands school district in Ridgecrest CA has some tandem Thomas pushers.   Yes, that's right!   Thomas made a few WestCoast-ER models (an uprated Saf-T-Liner, some even with disk brakes!) as dual-drive tandems, with either Cat 3208 or Cummins 8.3 engines.   These would give you the best of both worlds  -  dual drive, plus a pusher's underfloor storage space.   As long as CARB funds are not used to replace school buses, school districts can sell them themselves, sometimes through Interschola;  if CARB is funding their replacements the old buses have to be scrapped.   Don't let me get started about that . . .   These Thomases are pre-1990, so they may be coming up for replacement soon.

Oh yes, one more thing.   I have 15" or more space underneath my bus, so I can easily work under it, and there's plenty of ground clearance for adventurous driving.

Hope this helps.   If you want to see my and my friend's buses, there is a get-together in early June in the SoCal high desert  -  PM me if you would like to join us there.

John

[Jeremy]

There is a disadvantage of a low bay bus that needs to be mentioned. The low bay height makes storing bikes or scooters a challenge. You might have to get the types that fold up for storage unless you have a way to transport them on the outside. Being on the outside has its own problems like theft, dirty, in the way, etc. Every thing is a trade off. Finding a small inexpensive car or trailer to pull would be an easy fix.

This is a very good point.  Is there any information compiled anywhere comparing the bay height of various bus models?

Storing bikes outside is never a good idea.  Our first set of bikes got stollen off the rack on the back of our Jeep.  And our second set aged prematurely to the constant weathering.  *ugh*

   - Chris // www.technomadia.com

Plenty of room for your bikes in one of these!:





Jeremy

[technomadia]

Both Crown and Gillig made tandems  -  they have both rear axles driven, unlike OTR buses with tag axles, with an inter-axle third differential that can be locked for off-road or snow/icy conditions.    ...  Oh yes, one more thing.   I have 15" or more space underneath my bus, so I can easily work under it, and there's plenty of ground clearance for adventurous driving.

I loved your description of the advantages of a Crown.  I hadn't even realized that there were bus options with dual drive axles. How cool!

I'd love to see some pictures of what some people have done with Crown conversions - I'm going to go hunt Google for some inspiration...  And if anyone stumbles across any contenders for sale, let us know.

I love the idea of a bus that can still get to some of the remote places we used to go in our truck / trailer.

   - Chris // www.technomadia.com